Bidding problem

[Cyberyeti]

If you play a 14-16 no trump, you only really have one problem, if you play 12-14 or 15-17 I give you 2.

 

How do you bid the following rather similar hands, assuming one falls inside your 1N range, and one falls outside, dealer S.

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sk732hk742da2caj5&n=saq54hadk53cq9763]133|200[/hv]

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sk732hk742da2ca75&n=saq54hadk53cqj963]133|200[/hv]

 

We held the first playing 12-14 and bid 1♥-2♣-2N (GF not always bal)-3♣(5+♣)-3♠(either 44 and 15+ or really big 4+-5+)-4N-5♣(0/3)-5N-6♥(K♥ no mK)-6♠-P (with a big long heart suit, would see that there are likely to be enough tricks and bid 7)

 

We would bid the second 1N-2♣-2♥-2♠(at least mild slam invite, don't always hold spades)-3♠(4-4 max)-4♥ (not needed naturally, agrees spades, 4m would show 5 naturally and deny spades)-4N-5♠-6♥(partner now knows about all 14 of my points)-6♠ (and I know you don't have K♣).

[manudude03]

I play both 15-17 and 12-14 with the same continuations with different partners, but with both hands it would go:

 

1NT-2C

2H-3C (either 5C,4S GF, or a balanced slam try)

3D-3S (relay, 5C,4S)

4D-4H (cue agreeing spades, cue)

4NT-5S

5NT-6D

6S

[Cyberyeti]

I play both 15-17 and 12-14 with the same continuations with different partners, but with both hands it would go:

 

1NT-2C

2H-3C (either 5C,4S GF, or a balanced slam try)

3D-3S (relay, 5C,4S)

4D-4H (cue agreeing spades, cue)

4NT-5S

5NT-6D

6S

I clearly didn't degrade the intermediates enough to stop you opening a 15-17 NT on the second.

[Zelandakh]

1.

1♣ = 15+ nat/bal or 18+ any

... - 1♥ = 4+ spades, GF

1NT = 15-17 bal, not 5 spades

... - 2♠ = 4 spades, 5 clubs

4♣ = 4 spades, 3+ clubs, extras, controls in all side suits

... - 4♦ = 6KCB

4♠ = 0 or 3

... - 6♠

 

2.

1NT = (11)12-14, 4414 possible

... - 2♠ = clubs or (semi-)balanced invite

3♣ = max

... - 3♥ = 5+ clubs, 4 spades

3♠ = 4+ spades

... - 3NT = slam try

5♣ = accept, controls in all side suits, 0 or 3 controls

... - 5♥ = K ask

5NT = ♥K

... - 6♠

[manudude03]

I clearly didn't degrade the intermediates enough to stop you opening a 15-17 NT on the second.

 

lol, for some reason I posted the second auction as if I was opening a 12-14 NT.

 

Playing 15-17 on the second hand, 1C-1S-2S-3C-4S-4N-5H-5N-6H-6S in a more natural auction.

[Cyberyeti]

Another question, is 6♣ actually better single dummy than 6♠ in that it potentially survives some situations with spades 4-1 and K♣ offside, I'm sure it is if you have ♣QJ109 between the hands with the short hand only holding one of them.

[Zelandakh]

You did not mention form of scoring. Even if 6♣ is a few % points better, I doubt it is enough to make it better than 6♠ at MPs. Also, it is not necessarily easy to find out if we have a slow diamond loser and club discards might be a useful way of avoiding that.

[Cyberyeti]

You did not mention form of scoring. Even if 6♣ is a few % points better, I doubt it is enough to make it better than 6♠ at MPs. Also, it is not necessarily easy to find out if we have a slow diamond loser and club discards might be a useful way of avoiding that.

Was actually teams, but the slam was only bid at 2/12 tables (county match, 3 teams of 8) so had it been pairs, bidding the right slam wouldn't have been that important.

[bigbenvic]

I play 12-14 and would get there on the first hand via

1h-2c

2nt (15-19)-3s

4s then keycard and 6s a bit unscientific but you know that opener is 4423 or 4432 and minimum as if 17+ and 4432 he'd have cued 4d (once you've discovered he has it) so he must be 15 or 16 and GS is far away.

 

The second I'd open 1nt but nervously as AKAK is almost too good/too many controls however I think it would bid it this way

INT-2s (transfer to clubs)

2nt (Hx NOT the jack, or better) - 3s (nat 5-4 slammish)

4d (sets spades and cue) 4nt

5c (3 keycards yes I play 0314!) - 6s