Apportion the blame

[Balrog49]

[hv=pc=n&s=skt2h432daqjt6ct8&w=saqj9hdk953ca9652&n=s6hakjt96d874ckq4&e=s87543hq875d2cj73&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1hp1nd2h2sp4sppdppp]399|300|1NT was forcing[/hv]

 

Down two against excellent defense. Could have held it to one. We had the only minus score in the room. +110 or +140 would have been an average minus because NS was getting doubled in 4♥.

 

Who is most to blame and what was the worst call made?

[nige1]

[hv=pc=n&s=skt2h432daqjt6ct8&w=saqj9hdk953ca9652&n=s6hakjt96d874ckq4&e=s87543hq875d2cj73&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1hp1nd2h2sp4sppdppp]399|300|

 

1NT was forcing

 

Down two against excellent defense. Could have held it to one. We had the only minus score in the room. +110 or +140 would have been an average minus because NS was getting doubled in 4♥.

 

Who is most to blame and what was the worst call made?[/hv]

IMO

• West's double is fine.
• Almost everybody would make East's 2♠ bid.
• West's leap to 4♠ is a bit of an overbid but
• It's academic because you can't force South to make the reasonable ♥ raise.

[wank]

east doesn't have his 2♠ bid. if west is unable to act again, you know you're outgunned and aren't aren't going to make anything. your defensive potential is fine with a likely trump trick, a singleton, and a long trump for ruffing.

 

of course if west does act again you'd be delighted to bid spades and if necessary bid them again at the3 level to compete the part score.

[the hog]

2S is quite normal on this hand. I don't know of anyone apart from Caspar Milquetoast and his brother who might pass. 4S is absurd; just raise to 3.

 

 

[wank]

raising to 3 is pathetic imo

[ggwhiz]

A stiff diamond to lead and those hearts or a possible tap in spades gives the east hand surprisingly strong defense so I'm torn.

 

A pass could net a second double by pard over 2♥ then 3♠ by me or if they wander into 4♥ I can smack it without fearing a 4♠ bid by pard at any point. I can handle anything but float and know it's a gamble but not insane imo.

 

2♠ is auto if the Q♥ is anywhere else and I don't mind it at all here. My pard would not hang me but might well if they had bid to 4♥. So I don't think easts choice was auto or wrong but the 4♠ bid loses on both counts.

[benlessard]

2S by east is normal, 4S is too much (your in MP).

[wanoff]

2S by east is normal, 4S is too much (your in MP).

 

But East would probably bid the same with K♠. How is West supposed to know you've bid his hand for him.

[Codo]

But East would probably bid the same with K♠. How is West supposed to know you've bid his hand for him.

 

West can ask his partner about the king of spades- or any other extra if he invites him?

[Winstonm]

100% to whomever shared the bathroom with south prior to this hand being played. :huh:

[billw55]

I think south's pass over 2♠ is the worst call. Should be 3♥ IMO.

[JLOGIC]

I'd probably have the same auction with myself. I think 4S is auto and 2S is super questionable, if I had this with myself I'd blame myself if I was east.

[rogerclee]

Maybe I'm old fashioned but with most of my hand being Qxxx of hearts I would just pass 2H, so I blame east.

[gnasher]

But East would probably bid the same with K♠. How is West supposed to know you've bid his hand for him.

 

If East has the same hand with ♠K, do you want to be in game?

[benlessard]

I would consider

 

AQJx

x

Kxxx

Axxx

 

a nice normal takeout that has a no extras of (1H)--(1Nt)--X

 

so with this hand I would WTP pass 2S telling myself that partner wasnt able to make a 1S overcall.

 

With the low H becoming a a low club the hand is 1 trick stronger, why would the value of my hand jump from 2 to 4 ? its not like my clubs are going to be easily established.

 

When all 4 bid like this partner is more likely to have a 5 card suit than a 4 card suit, so my QJ of spades tend to lose values plus im likely going to ruff with at least 1 of them. 4S is simply too much imo.

 

A stiff diamond to lead and those hearts or a possible tap in spades gives the east hand surprisingly strong defense so I'm torn.

The problem is that you cant have both you have to choose what to lead.

 

In imps I would pass 2H but at MP I have good reason to be able to make 2S or to push them higher so 2S is normal agressive MP imo.

[the hog]

Maybe I'm old fashioned but with most of my hand being Qxxx of hearts I would just pass 2H, so I blame east.

 

 

Most of MY hand is the fact that I have 5S.

[gnasher]

In imps I would pass 2H but at MP I have good reason to be able to make 2S or to push them higher so 2S is normal agressive MP imo.

Being able to make 2♠ or push them higher is a worthy objective at IMPs too. Five IMPs is half a game-swing.

[wank]

Being able to make 2♠ or push them higher is a worthy objective at IMPs too. Five IMPs is half a game-swing.

 

there are too many points missing for this to get passed out often - 24 or so between LHO and partner. either LHO is raising anyway (ignoring the fact he had an obvious raise with his actual hand) or partner's acting again. the only time this isn't true is when partner's doubled on a balanced hand and values in which case we probably don't want to be bidding.

[MrAce]

I would %100 bid 2♠ sitting east. Knowing at least 8 card fit, more likely a 9 card fit, i will compete.

 

Btw, i prefer bidding them right now ( which promises nothing except than competing) rather than deciding which level to bid them when pd reopens it.Or seeing 2♥ being passed out.

Having said that, i would also bid 4♠ with W hand.

 

EW made very reasonable bids imo.

[gnasher]

there are too many points missing for this to get passed out often - 24 or so between LHO and partner. either LHO is raising anyway (ignoring the fact he had an obvious raise with his actual hand) or partner's acting again. the only time this isn't true is when partner's doubled on a balanced hand and values in which case we probably don't want to be bidding.

I wasn't talking about the absolute merits of bidding 2♠, but about whether you should do something different at IMPs from at matchpoints.

[gszes]

2S is quite normal on this hand. I don't know of anyone apart from Caspar Milquetoast and his brother who might pass. 4S is absurd; just raise to 3.

 

 

I have some caspar blood running through me ----p "borrows" 7 hcp from

our hand to make their initial x -- we are not even close to the 7 they

borrowed. This hand was a simple 1s emergency bid if rho had passed--

over 2h we are not even close to finding a bid.

 

a 2s bid here should promise (at worst 6) to 9. This type of overbidding

causes huge headaches later in the bidding (as witnessed here).

 

If p cannot compete over 2h nothing will be lost. A 2s bid probably does

nothing but help the opps evaluate their hands better if one of them is short

maybe propelling them to an otherwise unbiddable game.

 

4s was indeed an overbid opposite "6-9" a 3s bid would have been much

more accurate.

[rhm]

Being able to make 2♠ or push them higher is a worthy objective at IMPs too. Five IMPs is half a game-swing.

Of course, but if you immediately bid 2♠ with the East hand you will hardly ever end up playing 2♠ or defending 3♥.

East can deduce if opponents want to play 2♥ based on a six card suit, that West must be strong and short in hearts.

 

It follows that West is unlikely to give up when 2♥ comes round to him.

He will want to push as much as East. That's why East should pass over 2♥.

I understand that patience is rarely practiced in modern bidding. But it does have its reward.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[aguahombre]

I would %100 bid 2♠ sitting east. Knowing at least 8 card fit, more likely a 9 card fit, i will compete.

 

Btw, i prefer bidding them right now ( which promises nothing except than competing) rather than deciding which level to bid them when pd reopens it.Or seeing 2♥ being passed out.

Having said that, i would also bid 4♠ with W hand.

 

EW made very reasonable bids imo.

This is correct for the auction that occurred. Winstonm and Bill255 (posts 10 & 11) give us the real cause of the disaster.

 

East's competition with five spades after being invited to compete is indeed what East should have done. However, South's silence over 2S when he started out with game-invitational values and learned of a 9-card fit in hearts created a variance no one else in the room would have to face. West's 4S bid is only reasonable after South's pass; otherwise West would know from the fact that the opponents have more than half the deck that he should only compete to 3S over South's normal 3H bid.

[cherdano]

I would consider

 

AQJx

x

Kxxx

Axxx

 

a nice normal takeout that has a no extras of (1H)--(1Nt)--X

You don't double enough.

[mikl_plkcc]

I simply won't make a free bid without enough points.