Fast arrival 3NT after 4th suit

[kgr]

f.i:

1C-1H

1S-2D

3NT

 

Or:

1C-1H

2C-2D (2D=GF Bourke relay)

3NT

 

From an old post of me, I'm now convinced that 3NT is not a good bid here ...or should be very specific. (also from http://squeezingthedummy.blogspot.be/2005/06/fast-arrival_16.html )

We had this 3NT defined as 12-14, but we now want to define it more narrowly.

What would you choose? :

- 12-14 very balanced, with xx (no honor) in partners suit.(Almost) always 4432. double stop in 4th suit (my preference because it is very natural for 3NT, and sometimes we support partner the 2nd time with Hx because we play T-Walsh and can support the first time with a 3-card).

- 12-13, with Hx (top honor) in partners suit. no singleton and double stop in 4t suit (my parnter's choice.

- Any 15-17 balanced, with double stop

- never bid 3NT in this sequence

- something else?

[aguahombre]

I don't understand 15-17 balanced. What is your opening nt? Or, if you are playing weak NT, then I don't understand 12-14 balanced.

 

We are most likely 4-1-3-5 with 15-17 on the first one.

[gszes]

I would play it as up to 15 singleton or void in hearts

at least 1 1/2 dia stops AJx. This taking up of space

will at least allow p to quit uselessly having to bid

hearts with 6 of them and concentrate on something

useful if they want to go slamming.

 

If you play preemptive jump shift responses you can now

use 3h (instead of 4th suit) to show a self sufficient suit

(max 1 loser opposite a singleton.) Using fast arrival to

show the shortness at least keeps opps in the dark about

responder's heart length.

[wank]

yes 15-17. obviously not balanced, but well stopped in the 4th suit and 5134.

 

playing fast arrival here is stupid. you need a way to show extra values in 2/1, and this is the way if you're lucky enough to be dealt the right shape.

 

edit: 4135 like aqua points out

[aguahombre]

yes 15-17. obviously not balanced, but well stopped in the 4th suit and 5134.

 

playing fast arrival here is stupid. you need a way to show extra values in 2/1, and this is the way.

I think you meant 4-1-3-5 since 1C was opened, but I certainly agree jumps in NT should show more, not less; and even though this is not a 2/1 sequence, it is a non-fit game forcing sequence where we need to be able to show that range in between a jump shift and a minimum opener right now and make partner the one in charge.

[lowerline]

f.i:

1C-1H

1S-2D

3NT

 

Or:

1C-1H

2C-2D (2D=GF Bourke relay)

3NT

 

From an old post of me, I'm now convinced that 3NT is not a good bid here ...or should be very specific. (also from http://squeezingthed...arrival_16.html )

We had this 3NT defined as 12-14, but we now want to define it more narrowly.

What would you choose? :

- 12-14 very balanced, with xx (no honor) in partners suit.(Almost) always 4432. double stop in 4th suit (my preference because it is very natural for 3NT, and sometimes we support partner the 2nd time with Hx because we play T-Walsh and can support the first time with a 3-card).

- 12-13, with Hx (top honor) in partners suit. no singleton and double stop in 4t suit (my parnter's choice.

- Any 15-17 balanced, with double stop

- never bid 3NT in this sequence

- something else?

 

In your 2nd sequence opener is already limited to 14-15hcp. I'd say 3nt shows a very good club suit and a diamond stopper (a hand just not good enough to rebid 3C or 3nt before).

In your 1st sequence I'd say opener has 4-1-3-5 or 4-2-2-5 and 15-17hcp.

That said, I'm perfectly happy with the agreement to never bid 3nt in those sequences.

 

Steven

 

 

 

 

[ggwhiz]

In your 2nd sequence opener is already limited to 14-15hcp.

 

As a corollary to "never" bidding 3nt our simple agreement is that it says I'm REALLY sorry I opened (max. ugly 12 count), this is our best strain from my point of view but I might not make it. 2nt followed by 3nt shows the slightly better but still min and/or poor fitting hands.