madongjun Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 [hv=pc=n&n=skqj543h63dq73ck6&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=1h2c2h2s3d3s4h4s5hdppp]133|200[/hv]问题是：同伴加倍5♥后，你该PASS吗（象实战那样）？还是该继续竞叫5♠？ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madongjun Posted June 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 [hv=pc=n&e=sakq3h9da973ck842&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=1h2s4h4spp5h5sppp]133|200[/hv]问题是：在对方叫出5♥后，你该继续竞叫5♠（象实战一样）还是该加倍？ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sungh Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 pass吧，pd的2♠是阻击性的，你就安心防守。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sungh Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 这牌叫牌又没有6 ，有5♠的话，5♥应该宕2-3墩，我选择pass。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvd Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 基于同伴有局时第2家叫的2s，我选择5s并期待mk。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lycier Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 南家Pass就是逼叫，X就是惩罚，同意sungh的意见。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madongjun Posted June 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 这是在俱乐部里打的牌。四手牌如下：[hv=pc=n&s=sa872htd86caj9753&w=st96haj74dkt5ct84&n=skqj543h63dq73ck6&e=shkq9852daj942cq2]399|300[/hv]实战中，首攻CA后转攻SA，庄家将吃，清将后打对方块，结果完成5HX+1. 现在请问：南家的加倍对吗？ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madongjun Posted June 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 这是在俱乐部里打的牌。四手牌如下：[hv=pc=n&s=s5hakq53dqt2cqt96&w=sjt9864hj7dk85c75&n=s72ht8642dj64caj3&e=sakq3h9da973ck842]399|300[/hv] 实战首攻红心后转攻将牌，结果红心、方块、草花各丢一墩，5S-1. 现在看来：是不是加倍更合算？ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyp163 Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 五阶定约属于对方的说法出自曼菲尔德，但必须明确，什么情况下这种牌例才能成立。五阶不争的几个情况：a) 即使你的牌非常畸型，但通常敌方的牌型分布却非常平均，因此你能够不用冒险就常常击垮敌方的定约。 b) 同伴在敌方花色上有次要大牌，正视这些微弱的Q-J-10的防御力量是非常困难的。但这些牌张经常可以帮助你打宕敌方的五线定约。 同样你的五阶定约完不成就是因为敌方在你的花色上持有次要大牌。 c) 防守高阶定约时很少需要考虑牌张组合的关系，因此防守方防御五阶定约所犯的错误，肯定比防守低阶定约要少。 d) 除非是非常畸型的牌，一手牌的总墩数是基本固定的（注：以你最好的套作将牌所取得的墩数＋以敌方最好的套作将牌所取得的墩数） ，很少会超过20。因此即使你五阶竞叫成功，你所能获得的利益也非常小。 例如：双有，假设敌方6-5配叫5C，你们5-4配竞叫5D，如果5C能做成，那么加倍5D将下二，你的收获仅仅是100分（-500对-600） e)一手牌的总赢墩数通常小于19，因此五阶竞叫一般是灾难性的。 我建议大家议一下，这副牌为什么不属于以上五种情况。不能迷失于经验，牌理才是最重要的， Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madongjun Posted June 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 [hv=pc=n&s=sk9754hkj954d832c&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=pp1h2n(%u4E0D%u5BFB%u5E382NT%uFF0C%u53CC%u4F4E)4h5cpp5hppdppp]133|200|不寻常2NT，双低[/hv]问题是：南家在西家的5♣后，该不该叫5♥？ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sungh Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 这是在俱乐部里打的牌。四手牌如下：[hv=pc=n&s=s5hakq53dqt2cqt96&w=sjt9864hj7dk85c75&n=s72ht8642dj64caj3&e=sakq3h9da973ck842]399|300[/hv] 实战首攻红心后转攻将牌，结果红心、方块、草花各丢一墩，5S-1. 现在看来：是不是加倍更合算？嗯，这牌东西家的4♠是MK的，南北的5♥是牺牲叫了。实战东家（我就是那个东家）分析不到位。好战，抢了个5阶定约。不安心防守。5阶定约永远是敌人的。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sungh Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 实战图：[hv=sn=A&s=SA872HTD86CAJ9753&wn=B&w=ST96HAJ74DKT5CT84&nn=C&n=SKQJ543H63DQ73CK6&en=sungh&e=SHKQ9852DAJ942CQ2&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=1H2C2H2S3D3S4H4S5HDPPP&p=CAC4C6C2SAS6S5H5HKHTH4H6H8S2HAH3DKD3D2D6DTD7D4D8D5DQDAC3DJC5C8S4&c=12]499|380[/hv]其实，5♥做成也算运气好。就是猜断♦Q的位置。我打南家的黑花色的64套，3张红花色的套，清将后知道了南家是2张♦，那么北家就是3张。因此，♦Q在北家的概率大些。理由不一定充分，但是，猜到了Q的位置而已。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sungh Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 4♥已经表达清楚了，不能再叫了。5阶定约永远属于敌人，就安心防守吧。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hongxl Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 [hv=pc=n&s=sk9754hkj954d832c&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=pp1h2n(%u4E0D%u5BFB%u5E382NT%uFF0C%u53CC%u4F4E)4h5cpp5hppdppp]133|200|不寻常2NT，双低[/hv]问题是：南家在西家的5♣后，该不该叫5♥？5c后该怎么处理交给北家了 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lycier Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 我赞成5♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lycier Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 这类五阶定约的帖子真挺不错，发人深思，有助于培养正确的逻辑思维判断。赞一个！ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lycier Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 这类牌面的判断和计算，十分困难，而且经常伴随这畸形分布，所以啊，在实战中，小心加倍--因为不论是我们自己还是世界大赛上有太多的惩罚性加倍被打成了...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvd Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 hehe,5楼太谦虚了。这个牌问题主要还是出在2s，在opp自然第一家开叫1h后，作为有局方的第2家的阻击叫应该是有严格要求的，西拿这样的牌去叫2s过于理想化，吃亏的时候应该占大多数。实际上哪怕西多个dQ，实战分布这个5s都是铁的。而即使西多个dQ他都还是不够有局第2家叫2s，而拿JT9864这样的套，还主动出2s，我认为旁门至少应该不少于3控制才有可能这样叫。 所以正常加叫5s完全没有问题，当然如果约定好这样2s啥都不保证，当然选择x最稳妥。总的来说5阶的叫牌的确很考验一个牌手的水平，通常的原则是当你判断不清楚该不该继续叫的时候，总是选择继续叫牌比较稳妥。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xuefeier Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 赞成dvd的分析 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madongjun Posted June 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 这是在俱乐部里打的牌。四手牌如下：[hv=pc=n&s=sk9754hkj954d852c&w=sj63hq87d3ckq9752&n=sathat632dqjt6ct3&e=sq82hdak974caj864]399|300[/hv]首攻方块并连续攻三轮方块，结果5♥X-1.如果防守松一点儿，不首攻黑桃的话，东西甚至能完成6♣定约。但是，如果防守正确的话，5♣都会下一。（首攻黑桃Ace并续攻黑桃X,南黑桃K，再还黑桃X）看来真是“五阶定约属于对方”。现在的问题是：在东显示双低花，西跳叫5♣后，北家能不能叫5♥？（基于同伴在2NT后直接叫出了4♥）. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wangzhi123 Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 这牌5h铁的，！5c对家没加倍，肯定c上无点，要不就是对家不会！ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wangzhi123 Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 这是在俱乐部里打的牌。四手牌如下：[hv=pc=n&s=sk9754hkj954d852c&w=sj63hq87d3ckq9752&n=sathat632dqjt6ct3&e=sq82hdak974caj864]399|300[/hv]首攻方块并连续攻三轮方块，结果5♥X-1.如果防守松一点儿，不首攻黑桃的话，东西甚至能完成6♣定约。看来，“五阶定约属于对方”也有例外。是对的。 现在的问题是：在东显示双低花，西跳叫5♣后，北家能不能叫出5♥的牺牲叫？（基于同伴在2NT后直接叫出了4♥）. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wangzhi123 Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 北无主动权！c上有点加倍！无点pass！ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wangzhi123 Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 这些情况真的很常见！我一般惩罚，但也有失误 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
601821297 Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 这牌防守是没有赢墩的，无对有，我会5H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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