When to DBL (if at all)

[eagles123]

just wondering what you guys thought:

 

our hands:

 

North

♠5

♥KQ62

♦Q85

♣AJ652

 

South

♠A42

♥AJT4

♦KT73

♣73

 

without any doubles, east opens 1♠ and west makes a bergen raise to 3♠ where it passes out

 

the vulnerability is we are red they are white:

 

so who, if anyone, should double: south immediatley, north after 3♠ or south protecting?

 

Thanks,

 

Eagles123

[wyman]

The onus of doubling is on the partner with shortness.

 

South should not double in direct seat, nor should he balance opposite a partner who failed to double even with marked shortness! This one's all north, who has a fairly routine TOX of 3S in my opinion.

[Winstonm]

Although it is not perfect, the law of total tricks helps a little here. With the opps showing a 9=card fit, it is guaranteed that we have at least an 8-card fit somewhere. 9+8=17, so that is the total amount of tricks supposedly that can be had on this hand. If they can make 9, we can make 8. If we can make 9, they can only make 8. And if we have game, 10 tricks, the theory says they should be down 2 in 3S.

 

It appears we either need to bid our game or double their contract if we have the preponderance of the power.

[MrAce]

1-I double myself but pass is the std bid

 

2-I think N should dbl

 

3-(MP) This is the part where we will have different opinions. Knowing that pd has only 1 spade, i would definetely dbl. I have the correct shape, If he bids clubs i will correct it to diamonds hoping that pd remembers i passed over 1♠. Yes if he has long clubs and no fit in reds that would be awful but i usually get my worst results in MP for remaining silent rather than making odd but percentage competitions.

3-(IMP) I would probably be chicken and pass, knowing that pd did not double 3♠ with shortness

[Vampyr]

so who, if anyone, should double: south immediatley, north after 3♠ or south protecting?

 

I think that either the auction or the diagramme is wrong -- it is North who has the immediate double.

 

EDIT: Oops sorry misread problem and assumed that 3♣ was the Bergen raise. Have never heard a raise to 3♠ described that way.

[akwoo]

I claim all of you who double over the 3♠ bid are resulting.

 

When you hold about 12 hcp in that situation, the expectation is that partner will have around 9, not around 12. Opener is frequently better than minimum. It's even possible for partner to have only 5, opps having 19+4. You're only a little over 50% to have the balance of power. Total tricks looks like 17, and that's not accounting for the possibility you don't find your best fit.

 

Holding a good 12hcp hand without a long suit in that situation, the most likely result of any action is to turn a +50 into a -100, and the second most likely result is to turn a -140 into a -200.

[Codo]

No, we are not resulting. We are well aware, that we sometimes buy a really horrible dummy for our double and that this time partner has a super duper maximum.. So what? Even without his ace of spades 4 HEart has some play...

[eagles123]

thanks guys, very helpful!

[shnk]

edit: never mind