No trump

[tg101]

Dear All,

 

A few years ago, I came across an interesting no trump system. 1NT - 2C was standard stayman and 1NT-2D was game forcing.

The artificial bidding sequence following 1NT-2D allowed the opener to show his exact distribution in all suits using bids below 3NT. I think the system was part of the polish club, but I cannot find it anymore. Does anyone know of such a no trump system and where I can find it?

 

thanks

-Torbjorn

[Zelandakh]

Do a search for two way Stayman and/or double-barelled Stayman. This is a popular method over a weak NT in some parts of the world and was (I believe) also part of the original Precision system.

[fromageGB]

If opener shows his exact distribution before responder decides on the contract, the defence will be delighted if opener is declarer. This is probably worth at least half a trick to them. Without knowing the method, it seems to me that this would be a more likely outcome than not.

 

As opener is often the declarer, and this is usually desirable, most people would prefer to invert the process so that dummy describes his hand, and declarer's is unknown.

[aguahombre]

As opener is often the declarer, and this is usually desirable, most people would prefer to invert the process so that dummy describes his hand, and declarer's is unknown.

Good to hear I might still be in the majority on something. Was beginning to think most people would prefer to just break out their sims and probabilities ---and keep both hands unknown.

[Cyberyeti]

If opener shows his exact distribution before responder decides on the contract, the defence will be delighted if opener is declarer. This is probably worth at least half a trick to them. Without knowing the method, it seems to me that this would be a more likely outcome than not.

 

As opener is often the declarer, and this is usually desirable, most people would prefer to invert the process so that dummy describes his hand, and declarer's is unknown.

 

It's desirable opposite a strong NT, opposite a weak NT your GF is probably a better hand than opener's 1N, so you're happy to declare.

[zasanya]

You may like to look up this system.

http://bridgefiles.net/VAR2/Systems/SYS-PrecisionViking.htm

[mycroft]

I played double-barrelled Stayman for years with a 12- or 11-14 NT, along with a Baron Corollary (1NT-2♦!; 2NT! (no 4cM, no 5cm)-3♣! (pattern out, please)). Yes, it's bad when we end up in 3NT as they're playing DD, but it does get you to the right 4M contracts that you can't get to otherwise (having decided to play 2♦ GF ART) - and played the right way up, too (with the described hand on the table). I've also played some 4-3 major games that are odds-less-on than 3NT except that they'll be defending DD; which score well when they come in 420 instead of 400, and also sometimes get a trick because only declarer knows it's a Moysian until it's too late.

 

In a strong NT world, you're not giving *that* much away over what they do when they take two rounds to get to 1NT - especially those auctions that are going to go through NMF - even if you do end up in 3NT. If you're playing the standard NT range, of course, those issues are more of a problem.

 

One advantage of double-barreled is that pretty much everything else is "NAT, to play", and it really pushes the opponents around. Also, you're less likely to be playing against DD defenders when the "0-10, 5+hearts" hand is declaring as opposed to the "12-14 BAL" hand. Finally, in a strong NT world, you're playing those contracts the "normal way up" again (which, of course, may still be the wrong way up, as the strong hand is on the table).

 

I don't currently, but I would if partner asked.

[tg101]

Thanks for the replies. It was not two-way or double barreled stayman. It might have been the viking precision system; I used to own the viking precision book a few years back so it might have been there I came across it. Unfortunately, I lost the book so I cant check.

 

I didnt use the system for very long but my initial impression (we used a weak 1NT opening) was that the decision between playing 3NT-4M or 3NT-5m became easier. Also, the decision between 5m or 6m became easier. Giving this information away to the opponents is of course not good, but I still found the system good against the opponents I faced.

[tg101]

After searching some more, I found an answer to my own question: It is probably relay stayman that was part of the old polish club WJ2000. Apparently it was replaced in WJ2005 because "it did not stand the test of time". :)