Free Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 I let my computer create some hands to test slam bidding with my partner (north has a strong 1♣ opening, and together NS's strength is at least close to slam). This however is a hand where we didn't find the best contract, and I wonder if it would still be good enough (in any type of scoring)... [hv=d=n&n=sakqthakdakqt64ca&s=s964hj92d2ckqj975]133|200|[/hv] Where do you and your partner end up? BTW: I let the EW hands out to not let you guys get influenced :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 This hand is a mess for me, can't find any sensible way to ask about ♣J on my system, not a way for south to ask for keycards, so I will end with a wild guess into 6 or 7 on any minor, after 2♣-3♣ and some bids that give not much info, I think 7♣ will be the final guess because a 7th♣ is also possible appart from ♣J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 I will end up in 7NT :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 2C 2D3D 3NT4D 5C6D Something like this, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 With my rose-tinted bidding spectacles on 2C - 2D3D - 4C4S - 6C7C If responder had KQJ10xx of clubs I would expect to have this auction at the table.With KQJ9xx the 6C bid is possibly dubious, but 5C seems very weedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted January 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 With my rose-tinted bidding spectacles on 2C - 2D3D - 4C4S - 6C7C If responder had KQJ10xx of clubs I would expect to have this auction at the table.With KQJ9xx the 6C bid is possibly dubious, but 5C seems very weedy. So you're ready to play 6♣ with KQJ975 opposite a void??? :P I'm 100% sure this bidding would NEVER happen at the table without seeing both hands, so please, keep it at least a bit realistic... Take 2 Aces away from North and you're down like hell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceptic Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 how about 2C 2D (waiting)2H (kokish relay to 2 spades) 2S (forced response)4NT (28-29) 7C (to play) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceptic Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 maybe 7C is a wild stab in the dark, but I am sure that there is a structure after 4NT to find right contract (I just dont know it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sceptic Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 and I have used this whilst playing and I have bid 4NT and I screwed up the continuation (thats why I dont play it any more) but as I learn I may play it again as it is cool convention I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 I let my computer create some hands to test slam bidding with my partner (north has a strong 1♣ opening, and together NS's strength is at least close to slam). This however is a hand where we didn't find the best contract, and I wonder if it would still be good enough (in any type of scoring)... [hv=d=n&n=sakqthakdakqt64ca&s=s964hj92d2ckqj975]133|200|[/hv] Where do you and your partner end up? BTW: I let the EW hands out to not let you guys get influenced :P Nothing could be easier.... 2♣ - 3♣5NT - 7♣Pass Looks too easy? 2♣ = forcing3♣ = suit KJ9xxx (or 7), AJ9xxx (or 7), AKJxxx, KQxxxx, or better... (but not solid suit, which is 2NT response, so not AKQJxx)....5NT = Grand slam force within the contect of the meaning of 3♣, if only interested in KQ of clubs, can use 4NT. So looking for quality of the "semi-solid" suit. 7♣ = KQJ, don't get any better than that. The method of responding to 2♣ I use Chris Ryal's paradox-based responding scheme.... see http://www.cavendish.demon.co.uk/bridge/two/clubs.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Pls let's be back to reality How is it possible not to play 7NT if you don't see both hands 36 HCP ! All aces and kings ! two 6 cards suit and no fit ! Are you serious all ??? :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Strictly the south hand is not good enough for a positive in my methods and I am not sure were we would end after the auction starts 2♣ 2♦ ... 2♣ 2♦3♠ four spades and five or more diamonds 3NT maybe - 4♣ might be better??? the auction could take many turns from here but I don't see us ending in 7♣. If South upgrades to a positive (not unreasonable) then I think we will find 7♣... 2♣ 3♣ clubs at least KJ or A3♦ Asking for a 4-card major 4♣ No and good clubs - we are virtually committed to at least 4NT after the positive7♣ this seems safest here - maybe we would ask for key-cards Curiously this hand might be easier if South dealer and opens 3♣ although there might still be difficulty in determining the solidity of the club suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 How is it possible not to play 7NT if you don't see both hands North looks at his hand and sees that there might be entry problems to partner's clubs. The key to the hand is establishing the solidity of the club suit or finding partner with the ♦J or a fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted January 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Pls let's be back to reality How is it possible not to play 7NT if you don't see both hands 36 HCP ! All aces and kings ! two 6 cards suit and no fit ! Are you serious all ??? ;) The fact that you have no real fit is an extra reason to play in ♣, so you can use your partner's hand as well to get to 13 tricks. If ♠ or ♦ don't run, and you don't find any J in one of these suits in partner's hand, you'll be stuck at your own hand while 7♣ might be available. I don't see any reason in playing ♦, but 7♣ is definetly safer than 7NT on the current layout. Difficulty is to find out if you have 7NT or 7♣, or not even grand :) For once J's are important. I like Ben's auction, as simple as it can get if you consider the South hand as positive over 2♣, and you found a safe contract. In MP's however you might run against a bottom, but I didn't specify a score-method so I don't blame you B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben47 Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 My try: Pass (0 - 8 or 16+) - 2♣ (Club positive)2♦ (nat. GF) - 3♣ (Nothing to bid)4♣ (RKC) - 4♦ (1)4♥ - 5♥ (Q but no K)5NT (Try for 7) - 6♣ (nothing outside clubs)7♣ (KQxxxx and nothing else is not a positive) Precision: 1♣ - 2♣ then the same.2/1: 2♣ - 3♣ then same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Pls let's be back to reality How is it possible not to play 7NT if you don't see both hands 36 HCP ! All aces and kings ! two 6 cards suit and no fit ! Are you serious all ??? ;) I can play 7!Cs (from the side with the singleton no less) because partner promised me KQJxxx or better in clubs. The gods sometimes will give him a jack or two but that is about all extra. If he has no side jack or only a heart side jack, how am I suppose to get to his running club suit. Give me Ax of clubs, and I bid 7NT in a flash, but being locked away from 5 or more potential club tricks would sway me..... no doubt the full hand is five-one club split and spades 3-3 and diamonds 3-3 so 7NT rolls, but I rather take my chances on 4-2 or 3-3 club split. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Pls let's be back to reality How is it possible not to play 7NT if you don't see both hands 36 HCP ! All aces and kings ! two 6 cards suit and no fit ! Are you serious all ??? ;) 7NT, never! Where is the entry to South's hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 This is my auction: 1c (16+) 1d(0-7 or 12+)1h (Natural or 19+) 1s (0-4 or 5-7 Unbalanced)2d (Game forcing hand) 3c (Natural Unbalanced 5-7)3d (relay) 4c (No side suit)4N (RKCB in clubs) 5c (One)5d (Queen?) 7c (Yes and Solid clubs, no side king or queen) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted January 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Here's the full hand: [hv=d=n&n=sakqthakdakqt64ca&w=sj8532h63d9853ct3&e=s7hqt8754dj7c8642&s=s964hj92d2ckqj975]399|300|[/hv] So 7NT -1 and 7♣ just made. (so your predictions about the suits splitting were wrong Ben ;) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarceldB Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 North looks at his hand and sees that there might be entry problems to partner's clubs. The key to the hand is establishing the solidity of the club suit or finding partner with the ♦J or a fit.And if finding Jack♦ will you be happy with a ♦ lead in 7NT? I prefer knowing Jack♠ Maybe it could not be appreciated perhaps to give underneath my bidding sequence in a HUM. But apart of the other aspects of a WOS, such hands are really a piece of cake ;-) frankly spoken so if you will still permit me: Pass= 13+ any shape-2♣= 6-11p. s/void ♦, longest suit=♣ OR a 4441, 5?441 (points can be 1 Ace only or a King + any Queen too!)2♦= relay-2S= 1-suiter♣ 6331, 7321 or 73302NT= relay-3♣= 6-9p. 6331 or 73213♦=relay-3♥= 3-3-1-63♠= SLam Asking Bid, ♣ is trump (for the present)-4♦= 1 Ace of 5 + Q♣4♥= Suit asking Bid ♥-4♠= non but or KQ♥ not possible re the 6-9p.4NT= SAB♠-5♣= non but or KQ♠ not possible re the 6-9p.5♦= SAB ♦-5♥= no A/K/Q♦5♠= scan Jacks, start with ♣-6♦= Jack♣+Jack♥, no Jack♠7 ♣-Pass note: Jack procedure in this SLAB method is that after all SAB's the next bids -if not a six-bid - is Jack scanning (in- or excluding the trump suit)Or after a Slab or SAB the first free bid. Is here after 4♦ the 5♥ bid,so meaning the same: scan Jacks start with ♣. Above sequence just to show you the SAB mechanism.I prefer here the direct 5♥ bid because f.e. in case of no J♣ you gain a needed one more step for investigating furtheron. Or even more steps in case the Q♥ is there. (Spiral scan method can be used as well in this system by the way, in two stages of the sequence and ending with the 6♦ bid too for the same information) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 many people starting with 2♣-2♦, can't see any problem about 2♣-3♣, but after that 5NT would be better fit IMO, and not asking about ♣J at all, on the look of this hand I should rethink about it though. About the how to avoid 7NT thing... is anyone really willing to play 7NT when partner has long ♣cs?, I think foreseeing the entry problem is kinda easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Obviously, I totally agree with all of you about the lack of entries but the problem is that, in my system, North will describe a balanced 28-29 ! So south after verifying aces shoud probably jump to 7NT given his great ♣ suit and 7HCP ! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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