Hanoi5 Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 All red, you hold: ♠AKJ♥J♦J98♣AK76xx (Pa)-4♥-(Pa)-??? We do not play NAMYATS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 Does partner have more than one way of opening 4♥? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 Pass for me. For any sane 4♥ opening, I can't see us avoiding 2 red suit losers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 Pass for me. For any sane 4♥ opening, I can't see us avoiding 2 red suit losers. Partner could easily have either of these hands: xAKTxxxxxxxxx xKQTxxxxxAxxx or any hand with 9 hearts to the AK and a single diamond. I play that 5♦ is an asking bid over 4♥ (step responses - no control, second round control, first round control). The issue is whether my hand is good enough to commit to the 5 level while revealing the diamond weakness. I take the plunge. 5♦. My hope is that he has good enough hearts so that if he has second round diamond control or better slam will make, and if he does not have second round control of diamonds that we do not lose 3 tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 8 winner hands are too strong in my book for a 4♥ opening. AKT8th and stiff will lose to Qxx♥ often enough that I don't feel that upset if it happens to make. It's far from a sure thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 How about exclusion blackwood showing a diamond void? I don't play it so have no idea if it's possible here. Otherwise I'm blasting 6♥ as 2nd seat is the real deal in my partnership and it will take a parlay of 2 diamond losers plus the lead to beat it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 8 winner hands are too strong in my book for a 4♥ opening.Which makes the OP's question impossible to handle. If there is no expectation from the 4H opening, everything is a crapshoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted May 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 You're red against red and the opening was at the second seat, what are the standards for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahydra Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 I'll try 5C, hoping partner shows a D control. 2nd in, all vul, he should have at least 7-4 with AKQxxxx hearts or equivalent, so it's really just about avoiding two quick diamond losers. ahydra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 pass. Not only is it right the majority of the time, but it also puts pressure on the opponents to reopen the auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 I thought I was aggressive and I'm not even considering moving here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 You're red against red and the opening was at the second seat, what are the standards for that?I don't know. If you say that, although NAMYATS is not in use, you neverthess have a certain trick-taking and purity expectation at various colors ---then the problem might be manageable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted May 17, 2013 Report Share Posted May 17, 2013 My old partner Bob Holmes used to preach that a second-seat preempt needed to be really sound by agreement because RHO has already passed so there is only one opponent left to preempt (or fool with). There is probably something to that thinking though not enough to make me move toward slam, even with this hand. If the vul had been red vs white, though, I would rethink this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfay Posted May 18, 2013 Report Share Posted May 18, 2013 Obv pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Molyb Posted May 18, 2013 Report Share Posted May 18, 2013 not playing namyats the most partner can really have is ♠xx ♥AKxxxxxx ♦x ♣x but there is no safety in figuring out whether he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted May 18, 2013 Report Share Posted May 18, 2013 Pass. Glp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted May 18, 2013 Report Share Posted May 18, 2013 I'll try 5C, hoping partner shows a D control. 2nd in, all vul, he should have at least 7-4 with AKQxxxx hearts or equivalent, so it's really just about avoiding two quick diamond losers.If you expect 7-4, isn't that a good reason not to move? His 4-card suit is at least as likely to be in diamonds as in spades, so if he has no diamond control you're quite likely to go down in 5♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted May 18, 2013 Report Share Posted May 18, 2013 Easy pass, the chance of ♦ being wide open is huge and there are no guarantees we won't lose a trump trick either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted May 18, 2013 Report Share Posted May 18, 2013 Partner could easily have either of these hands: xAKTxxxxxxxxxWhat a nice T of hearts! xKQTxxxxxAxxxAnd another nice T of hearts!! Given that your examples are well-fitting maximums, and you still needed the magical T of hearts to make them pretty good, they should be enough to convince you to pass 4H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinidad Posted May 18, 2013 Report Share Posted May 18, 2013 It's not impossible for a 4♥ preempt to have first and second round control in one red suit and a second round control in the other. But if you are betting on it, odds are that you will lose. Rik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted May 18, 2013 Report Share Posted May 18, 2013 You're red against red and the opening was at the second seat, what are the standards for that? 8 (ish) winners is our partnership standard. I understand that this does not appear to be the the mainstream view but with 7 (ish) and 1/2 decent defence we open 1 and rebid the suit a few times. ArtK's example hands are not good enough for 4 without the ♥10 for us. Lacking that card (as cherdano points out) one would be 3♥ (pretty good hand in this seat) and the other would be a 1♥ opener. That's in theory and we don't get them all right at the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted May 18, 2013 Report Share Posted May 18, 2013 It is very unusual to play 4♥ as promising more than a minimum 1♥ opening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted May 19, 2013 Report Share Posted May 19, 2013 We do not play NAMYATS. All red, you hold: ♠ A K J ♥ J ♦ J 9 8 ♣ A K 7 6 x x(Pa)-4♥-(Pa)-??? IMO 6♥ = 10, Pass = 9, 5♣ = 7, 4N = 6.2nd seat, vul, 4♥ shows a good hand, ♥J is a good card, and 6♥ may make on a blind lead. 5♣ (Sharples style) would show concern about ♦. Without 2nd round control, opener bids 5♥. Other bids are cues with ♦ control e.g. With 2nd round control and nothing much else of interest, he bids 5♦. 6♦ shows 1st round control. 5N shows solid trumps. The problem is that even 5♥ may be in jeopardy if we direct a ♦ lead :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 I would pass easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jallerton Posted May 20, 2013 Report Share Posted May 20, 2013 IMO 6♥ = 10, Pass = 9, 5♣ = 7, 4N = 6.2nd seat, vul, 4♥ shows a good hand, ♥J is a good card, and 6♥ may make on a blind lead. Yes, 6♥ might make on a blind lead, but some people play in circles where the opening leader is encouraged to inspect his own hand before leading. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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