Suit Combinations

[Guest Jlall]

well its not the ONLY chance, you could play for Tx onside, that is just inferior

[Flame]

well its not the ONLY chance, you could play for Tx onside, that is just inferior

Exactly, this is because 10 sgl onside shouldnt be taken into consideration while 10 sgl ofside is

[HeartA]

You guys need to play against better opponents...

 

RHO with QT, QTx or stiff Queen will play the queen when you lead low from dummy. It is automatic. So sure, you pick up T876 versus singelton Queen, but you lose to

876 opposite QT,

87 opposite QT6

86 opposite QT7

78 opposite QT8

 

I wonder, really, which is better odds? hmm... your opponent will have a story to tell for quite some time, thank you very much. I am taking the real percentage play of king then small to the JACK, when needing four tricks.

 

Ben

 

I don't understand, Ben. How do I loss in those cases? When Q appears, I cover with Ace, then cash Jack to confirm. When it is 3-2, I don't loss. If RHO shows out, I make the marked finesse.

[inquiry]

You guys need to play against better opponents...

 

RHO with QT, QTx or stiff Queen will play the queen when you lead low from dummy. It is automatic. So sure, you pick up T876 versus singelton Queen, but you lose to

876 opposite QT,

87 opposite QT6

86 opposite QT7

78 opposite QT8

 

I wonder, really, which is better odds? hmm... your opponent will have a story to tell for quite some time, thank you very much. I am taking the real percentage play of king then small to the JACK, when needing four tricks.

 

Ben

 

I don't understand, Ben. How do I loss in those cases? When Q appears, I cover with Ace, then cash Jack to confirm. When it is 3-2, I don't loss. If RHO shows out, I make the marked finesse.

My bad.. one shouldn't drink on an empty stomack......

[fred]

Congratulations to several of you for working out that with:

 

J9876

 

32

 

You should play low to the J (as this picks up 10x and 10 offside, while low to the 9 picks up 10x onside).

 

I like this combination because the right play is so counter-intuitive (at least to me).

 

Your next assignment:

 

KQ10987

 

32

 

You can afford to lose only 1 trick.

 

This one is harder than the other combinations that have been posted in this thread so far.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[luke warm]

KQ10987

 

32

 

You can afford to lose only 1 trick

 

it seems to me that if you play for the honors to split you have no problem, just lead toward the K or Q... so that can't be right :(

 

leading to the K wins anytime the A is right... i think i'd go ahead and play against the only bad split i can do something about, AJx(x)(x) under the K,Q... low to the 10

 

Void

 

AQ108765

 

You can afford to lose 2 tricks

 

on this one since i can lose 2 tricks i think i'd lead a low spade then the Q, hoping to fork the J or 9 doubleton next time

[Flame]

Ok i play to the K, and later to the Q wather the K hold or not.

explaining

If the K is taken by the A. Now the post chances of playing Q10 opposite x when 3 cards are missing is to the 10, but i think this is wrong here, to the 10 loses to AJ offside, to the Q loses to Ax offside (both loses to AJx offside) but resticted choice tells us to play to the Q, because with Ax east might have ducked while with AJ he couldnt.

If the K took the trick playing to the 10 will lose only to Jx offside, while playing to the Q will lose only to Ax offside, same thereticasl chances but there are two clues to play to the Q, the first, with Ax east might have played the A while with Jx he must play small.

Second a hiddlen clue if east know my analysing that if he win the A i should play to the K based on restricted choice, then with Ax he should take the A, so when he doesnt take it gives another a clue that he doesnt have it.

[fred]

I'm not going to answer the KQ10987 opposite 32 problem right away (in fact I may wait for a few days), but here are some general comments about suit combinations:

 

First of all, don't draw this (incorrect) inference:

 

Fred is good at suit combinations.

 

Fred is a successful tournament player.

 

Therefore being good at suit combinations is a necessary condition for being a successful tournament player.

 

This is 100% not true. The vast majority of successful tournament players don't know their suit combinations very well (though some of them are capable of figuring them out at the table). Also, there are plenty of people who know their suit combinations inside out, but have never won anything big.

 

The fact of the matter is that being able to solve these problems (or memorizing the answers to a lot of them) is of very limited practical importance. There are several reasons why this is true:

 

- Bridge deals in which pure suit combination problems arise are rare. In almost all deals factors like entries, inferences from the bidding (or lack thereof), inferences from the opening lead or early defense, the possibility that a defender might make a mistake or fail to find a "mandatory falsecard" impact the odds.

 

- Even when such deals occur, the difference between the 2 best lines of play is often no more than 2% or so. Making a reasonable play, even if it is not the best play, will usually be good enough.

 

- The time and energy it takes to solve these problems at the table will take away from the other (more important) aspects of your game.

 

- The rest of the field doesn't know how to solve these problems either.

 

That being said, I personally find the study of suit combinations to be fascinating and I believe that the time I have spent trying to solve these problems in my head has helped to make me a better bridge player. This is not so much because of the knowledge I have gained, but because the excercise itself has made me better at "thinking about bridge problems".

 

In my entire bridge career I can think of only 1 deal in which being a "expert at suit combinations" had a significant impact on my results in a major tournament. I have written about the deal in question before, but I will mention it again in some future installment in this thread.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[Yzerman]

Here is one that come up 2 times in same day.

 

 

hand AQ108x ..... dummy xxx

 

Suit is trumps, both time IMPs, entries to dummy not a problem ...

 

a - 1st time - for 4 winners

 

b - 2nd time - for 5 winners

[Flame]

Here is one that come up 2 times in same day.

 

 

hand AQ108x ..... dummy xxx

 

Suit is trumps, both time IMPs, entries to dummy not a problem ...

 

a -  1st time - for 4 winners

 

b -  2nd time - for 5 winners

To make 5, play to the 10, and later to the Q to catch KJ(X) onside

To make 4 play to the Q first and to the 10 later. The improvent of this is that if east has J sgl, it will droped under the Q and you wont lose more then 1 trick now, while if you played to the 10, you would lose another trick to the K9xx onside.

while if east has K sgl, playing the first 10 wont help you more then playing the Q.

[HeartA]

To make 5, play to the 10, and later to the Q to catch KJ(X) onside

To make 4 play to the Q first and to the 10 later. The improvent of this is that if east has J sgl, it will droped under the Q and you wont lose more then 1 trick now, while if you played to the 10, you would lose another trick to the K9xx onside.

while if east has K sgl, playing the first 10 wont help you more then playing the Q.

To make 4 tricks, you cash Ace first, which guards against singleton King (and J) and KJ doubleton off-side. Then from hand to dummy, covering whatever LHO plays.

[Flame]

To make 5, play to the 10, and later to the Q to catch KJ(X) onside

To make 4 play to the Q first and to the 10 later. The improvent of this is that if east has J sgl, it will droped under the Q and you wont lose more then 1 trick now, while if you played to the 10, you would lose another trick to the K9xx onside.

while if east has K sgl, playing the first 10 wont help you more then playing the Q.

To make 4 tricks, you cash Ace first, which guards against singleton King (and J) and KJ doubleton off-side. Then from hand to dummy, covering whatever LHO plays.

And you will lose to Jx offside, i think/feel its not worth it, but i didnt check.

[HeartA]

And you will lose to Jx offside, i think/feel its not worth it, but i didnt check.

That is the only case you might loss. but there is a chance RHO hopped with King. Or you decided to play Queen for some reason.

[Yzerman]

Here is one that come up 2 times in same day.

 

 

hand AQ108x ..... dummy xxx

 

Suit is trumps, both time IMPs, entries to dummy not a problem ...

 

a -  1st time - for 4 winners

 

b -  2nd time - for 5 winners

The "book" says;

 

4 winners - Low to Q, then low to 10 (when Q holds) - picks up any Kx, Jx, 9x, KJx, K9x, KJ9, 9, J, or K onside and stiff 9 or J offisde and loses only to stiff King offside.

 

5 winners - Low to 10 then low to Q (assuming 10 holds) - picks up KJx onside.

[HeartA]

4 winners - Low to Q, then low to 10 (when Q holds)  -  picks up any Kx, Jx, 9x, KJx, K9x, KJ9, 9, J, or K onside and stiff 9 or J offisde and loses only to stiff King offside.

 

It losses to KJ doubleton as well.

[Flame]

Here is one that come up 2 times in same day.

 

 

hand AQ108x ..... dummy xxx

 

Suit is trumps, both time IMPs, entries to dummy not a problem ...

 

a -  1st time - for 4 winners

 

b -  2nd time - for 5 winners

The "book" says;

 

4 winners - Low to Q, then low to 10 (when Q holds) - picks up any Kx, Jx, 9x, KJx, K9x, KJ9, 9, J, or K onside and stiff 9 or J offisde and loses only to stiff King offside.

 

5 winners - Low to 10 then low to Q (assuming 10 holds) - picks up KJx onside.

Where is my "And the winner is..." :) I just need those times when im right to give me more confident if you seen me shaken at the table you would understand.

[Flame]

4 winners - Low to Q, then low to 10 (when Q holds)  -  picks up any Kx, Jx, 9x, KJx, K9x, KJ9, 9, J, or K onside and stiff 9 or J offisde and loses only to stiff King offside.

 

It losses to KJ doubleton as well.

True, but

KJ is less likely then Jx and K single together. more then 1.5 times better if im not mistaken.

[Guest Jlall]

KQ10987

 

32

well lets see.

 

If you take the first round finesse, you pickup AJxx and Jxxx and Jxx onside (8.48 and 2.43 and 10.17 %). You lose to Axxx onside, or Axx onside, or Ax onside (assuming you are playing low to king then low to queen...(2.83 and 10.17 and 10.17%). So low to the king is a superior start.

 

Now, lets say it goes low to the king and all duck. You lead up to dummy again, and they duck again. If they would ALWAYS duck with Ax offside, and with Axx onside, then its a pure guess. But if they would always duck Ax offside, that means if they win the ace they MUST have AJ tight (so you should duck it). Now you pickup an additional 3.39 % always. So optimally they should not always duck Ax offside so they can protect themselves when they have AJ tight. I'll let you do the game theory math but essentially some of the time they must be winning with Ax. So the percentage play is now low to the king and low to the queen. Nice combo.

[Fluffy]

void

 

AQ108765

 

Ace first, next the 8, I know hundreds of players who will put J from KJxx over the 8. Anyway in theory as already said is equal.

 

KQ10987

 

32

 

Against our usual opponents low to the K and play for a 1 honnor third onside is the best in practice obviously.

 

In theory is far more complicated, what if LHO raises with the ACE?, does he have AJXX?, I doubt anyone will make a second roudn finese, but AJXX is actually the holding wich could make you make first round finese to the J, I dunno wich is the theorical best spot, but probably that holding switches wich one is best :).

[whereagles]

The vast majority of successful tournament players don't know their suit combinations very well

That is very, very true :)

[joker_gib]

 

KQ10987

 

32

 

There are 32 possibilities for the 5 remaining cards.

 

Low to the 10 directly works 15 times

Low to the K and then low to the 10 works 15 times

 

And the winner is ....

 

Low to the K then low to the Q works 16 times !! ;)

 

Am I right ?

[Yzerman]

How about a few counters to suit combination and/or some frequent positions that may catch people sleeping.

 

My favorite counter is the following suit combination defense (neat story accompanies this defense) -

 

Dummy

AJ9x

 

You

K10x(x)

 

Although there are many combinations in which a player may play honor under the ace on first play, this is position where King is nice counter.

 

My partner I were watching a young player and his partner play vs Meckwell in early rounds of the Spingold a few years back. A few of us were at a vantage point where we could see dummy (young dude's partner), declarer's (young dude), and Jeff Meckstroth's hands. We could see from declarers hand and the dummy that declarer had 9 tricks in 3NT once he knock ace in his long suit, but for some reason declarer attack a side suit, 7 card fit, with the above combination. Before the young kid's card hit the table, Jeff Meckstroth had the King on the table, at that point there was MONUMENTAL pause in tempo as the young player realized he just jeopardize his contract. I was absolutely amazed at the table presence, knowledge and experience of Jeff Meckstroth to play the King as a reflex, HE DID NOT HAVE TO THINK AT ALL ABOUT THIS. This was a tremendous learning experience for myself, for I understood much better what makes a world class player.

 

Some other combinations or positions that are frequent in which many players are caught sleeping;

 

1 - In trump suit where you are in front of AQ10(x+) in front or where you are behind xxx(x+) and you hold Kx. Playing the K is fairly standard (obviously depending on a few conditions). Most important is when you are behind xxxx with Kx, unblocking the K in case partner have AJx or Q10x in trumps.

 

2 - ANOTHER FAVORITE - Declarer is playing suit contract in which auction and/or dummy reveals that declarer has many tricks. Early in hand declarer suspiciously cashes an Ace from an "empty" suit and you hold Kx or Qx. Better not get caught sleeping!!!

 

* I played with partner in tournament few years back, and my partner attempt cash of ace on hand @ trick 2, my LHO (who is many time NABC champ), says aloud to table as the she played the King in this suit, "you are not playing against a novice, but nice try anyway". NOW THAT IS A BRIDGE PLAYER!

[luis]

KQT9887

xx

 

I have this "cached" in my memory... Low to the K, if that holds low to the Q. But if the K/Q is taken with the Ace play the queen next. Restricted choice applies, RHO can't duck the K/Q with AJ doubleton :-)

 

It's different if you have

 

KQT98

xxx

 

For four tricks you play low to the K and then low to the Ten.

 

Luis

[han]

KQ10987

 

32

 

You can afford to lose only 1 trick.

 

This one is harder than the other combinations that have been posted in this thread so far.

Happy New Year to all!

 

I have erased this message since I changed my mind after posting :blink:

[Rebound]

Your next assignment:

 

KQ10987

 

32

 

You can afford to lose only 1 trick.

Well Fred, here's my 2 cents:

 

First, it doesn't matter what you do in the following cases, 5-0 break, AJx or AJxx offside, singleton A either side. If the J is singleton onside then you know what to do.

 

Now, low to the 10 right away loses anytime the J is offside but it's not as silly as you may think since most of those cases are already covered above. So, the only relevant ones that fail are AJ, J(x)(x) - 4 cases. Still seems like a bad idea, just not as dumb as it first appears. Note the following: if LHO AJxx you must lead low to the 10 and then low to the 9 but that's only 1 case so we'll assume the first lead is to the king.

 

If the first lead loses to the A on the right, all other holdings having been eliminated above, the opps holdings will be Jx opposite x or xx opposite J so you must guess. Likewise, you have no problem if LHO goes up A. If the K is allowed to win here's what ya got in the opps hands: Jx - A, Ax - J, AJ - x. Obviously the last holding is trivial since you will know what to do once LHO plays. So it really comes down to a guess: which one has the J and which one has the A? So, another 50-50 shot. I hope I have this right.

 

Incidentally, it took me a long time to work this out. Really interesting problem, Fred, thanks.

Edited January 5, 2005 by Rebound