Continuations after 1D-2C GF

[Bende]

We open 1♦ with 4-4 ms and 1♣ with 3-3 ms. After a 1♦ opening, 2NT is GF with a balanced hand and 3♣ is INV so we play 2♣ as GF with 5+♣. Do you think the following are reasonable continuations after that? Since we don't have non-serious 3NT as a tool when a minor suit is trumps, I thought it would be a good idea to let opener limit his hand quite quickly.

 

1♦ - 2♣;

2♦ = 4+♦, denies 4+♣, 12-14 balanced or minimum unbalanced

2♥ = 4+♥-(4)5+♦, extra values (could be 4441 if 18+)

2♠ = 4+♠-5+♦, extra values

2NT = 12-14 with 4432 or 18-19 balanced (in which case opener could have 4♣)

3♣ = 4+♣, limited by failure to splinter or to bid 4♣ (or 2NT)

3♦ = 6+♦, extra values and very good suit

3M = Splinter, 4+♣ and extra values

3NT = 15-17 with 4441

4♣ = 4+♣ and very good hand

4M = Void

[PhilKing]

1) "After a 1♦ opening, 2NT is GF with a balanced hand and 3♣ is INV so we play 2♣ as GF with 5+♣."

 

This does not logically follow, although it would if you played 1♦-2NT as invitational (which I think you should). Yes, this gives up on promising 5♣ when you are exactly 3334, but so what?

 

2) You have information leakage in you balanced rebids. The 2NT rebid is horrible, telling them your exact shape with the 4432 min when partner almost certainly could not care less.

 

One solution is to just rebid 2♦ whenever you have 5+, leaving 2♥/♠ to cover all the problem hands:

 

2♥ = balanced, 12-14/18-19 with less than HHx club, or 4441 any. Then 2♠ asks if partner wishes to know more. Alternatively, responder can just bid 2NT or 3NT or something else with an extreme hand.

 

2♠ = bad club raise, but unbalanced. 3♣ now asks for shortage, others nat.

 

2NT = 12-14/18-19 balanced, but suitable for clubs (generally HHX or better, but Hxx possible with weak major).

 

3♣ = extras. Can be 2263 or 2254 or 3154 with say a stiff king.

 

Higher = as before.

[benlessard]

using both 2NT and 2C as GF is redundant. What is your method to handle 11 pts hands ?

 

Imo as long as 1D-1C-2D as a pretty high frequency you should be ok. For that reason alone Im pretty much convinced that 2D as any minimum is better than 2D showing 5.

 

Using 2N by opener as 6D and at least half stoppers in majors (or 18-19 bal) is pretty good. Those 3361, 3262 without a good suit are fairly frequent.

 

 

 

If you want to be fancy you can play

 

2C-2H as extras with 4 hearts or with exactly 3 clubs. So that way 3C directly or splinter always show 4 trumps and its less annoying to bid 1D--2C with 4clubs or a big balanced hand.

 

2C--2H--2S (relay) ???

 

2Nt = 4H+S stopper. 3451,2452,2461,4441

3C = 3C but not 4M

3D = 4H,6D or 2452 & no S stopper

3H = 1453

3S = 4153

3Nt = 4450 ??

 

or something similar. Being able to show 3 clubs with extras is great because the hand is automatically unbalanced and on those hands 5C/6C is often a target.

[Bende]

To answer the questions about 11 point hands, our system is based on the general structure of the Levin-Weinstein and Gitelman-Moss convention cards where they play

 

1♦ - 1NT = 6-11

1♦ - 2NT = (12)13-15 or 18+

1♦ - 3NT = 16-17

 

After 1♦ - 2♣, Fred Gitelman plays (according to the cc) that 2♦ is "any minimum with 4+♦". That was as far as we had discussed it up to this point.

 

The structure I suggested did not handle for example (31)63 hands with extra values so it was obviously not good enough. I see that it could be useful to have 2♥ and 2♠ as artificial but I'd rather avoid more artificial bids if I can. If 2♦ should show any minimum with 4+♦, the problem hands, if bidding faily natural, seem to be 12-14 with 4432, extra values with 4441, and extra values with 6♦ but without a very good suit.

[aguahombre]

2) You have information leakage in you balanced rebids. The 2NT rebid is horrible, telling them your exact shape with the 4432 min when partner almost certainly could not care less.

Yes, sometimes auctions leak information. But, it is hard to believe "partner almost certainly could not care less." The strain is resolved with certainty; it can now be established without further torture, leaving us only to determine controls and level.

[Flem72]

Mike Lawrence's structure is intuitive and efficient (apologies for formatting glitches in cut/paste):

1D-2C = Forcing to 3N or 4m

 

1. O’s rebids: 2D = 12-19, 5+ Ds. Anything else denies 5+ Ds

 

2H, S = < 5 Ds, 4 cds, denies stop in other M.

 

2N = 12-14 or 18-19, stops, does not deny 4 card M. (Death hand e.g., AQJ xxx KQxx Jxx or Kxx xxx KQJx Axx .

 

Prefer 2N rebid unless a good 14, then 3C. ),

 

3C = 3 very good or 4 Cs, not min i.e. ≥ 14 sp.

 

3D = very good suit, 15+

 

3H,S = spl, 15+ sp

 

3NT = 15-17, 6 + suit, spread out values.

 

4H, S = void spl, 17+ sp

 

2. R’s rebids: 2H, S = 4 cds, denies stopper in other M over 2D.

 

2NT = 12-14 or 18-19—stops; does not deny 4 card M over

 

2D, so O can bid 3M showing 4 cards.

 

3C = good suit, may be very good suit and very little else.

 

3D = if over 2D, 3 Ds, no stops, presumably unbal

 

if over 2M, 2NT or 3C, 4+ Ds, no stops, unbal

 

3H,S = if over 2D, spl, good 3 (2 honors) or 4+ Ds, 15+ sp if a raise, 4 in M, 12+ sp, outside control

 

if over 2NT, 4 in M, shape showing

 

if over 3C, presumably a stop, denies stop in other

 

3S after 2H = spl raise, 12+ sp

 

3NT = if over 2X, 15-17

 

other spl = may be support/spl for any 2X

 

4H,S = if a raise, picture bid: 12-14 sp, no control outside

 

Cs and M

 

NOTE: NT re-raises or jumps after a call that could be 12-14 or 18-19, show 18-19.

 

E.g., 1D-2C/2N-3N/4NT, 1D-2C/2N-4N, 1D-2C/2M-2N/3N-4N.

 

 

 

The keys are:

 

O's 2D rebid is broad range and only claims 5+ Ds;

2NT calls by either player do not deny a 4 cd M;

O's 2M rebid claims 4 and denies a stop in the OM;

4 cd M can be bid by either at any time;

if O has a 6-4 1RF reverse kind of hand, s/he will rebid Ds at whatever level is appropriate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mike777]

"I thought it would be a good idea to let opener limit his hand quite quickly."

 

 

agree with this point but given 1d=2c=gf what problem are you trying to solve and prefer to not just bid natural?

 

For example rebid 2nt with bal minimum, rebid 2d with 6+...etc

 

Perhaps I am bit biased as I assume responder has the bigger hand very often and opener has less, often. We also try and open offshape 14-16 pt hands 1nt to reduce this issue.

 

If opener has much much more she can just keep bidding. I suppose the in-between hands may cause some issues...of course but now we are assuming the opp are silent.