Bergen Raises question

[barsikb]

♠10 7

♥A J 9 8 6

♦Q J 9

♣J 5 4

 

How to respond to partner's 1♥opening bid?

[nigel_k]

The exact choice depends how you play Bergen but I would evaluate this as the 11-12 option not the 7-10 option.

 

There will be a big difference between AQx KQxxx Kxx xx and Kxx KQxxx xx AQx opposite, but we can't do much about that.

[mike777]

In Bergen 4h

4h=less than ten hcp

5+h

less than 1 outside quick trick.

 

same hand style and 1-1.5 outside quick tricks you bid 4d playing full Bergen style.

In other words move the AH outside of h you would bid 4d.

[straube]

3C for me. constructive with four+ trump. 5332 and quackish. knr 8.45

[Trinidad]

If you play Bergen Raises the way Bergen wrote them up in "Better bidding with Bergen" then 4♦ shows this hand: 7-10, 5♥.

 

Most people don't, so they have to chose between the 11-12 and the 7-10 four card raise. I would go for 11-12, but I wouldn't criticize my partner if he would pick 7-10 (unless he thinks that it's probably better to underbid since I will be declarer :angry: ;) ).

 

Rik

[neilkaz]

With 5332 and some quacky values and only 9 hcp, I am not upgrading this to a game force inspite of the 5th trump. I suspect it is best to call this a limit raise.

[straube]

If you play Bergen Raises the way Bergen wrote them up in "Better bidding with Bergen" then 4♦ shows this hand: 7-10, 5♥.

 

Most people don't, so they have to chose between the 11-12 and the 7-10 four card raise. I would go for 11-12, but I wouldn't criticize my partner if he would pick 7-10 (unless he thinks that it's probably better to underbid since I will be declarer :angry: ;) ).

 

Rik

 

Would someone please check his book because my recollection is that 4D looks something like x Axxxx Kxxx xxx and 4H looks more like x Axxxx xxxx xxx. Both have shortness.

[CSGibson]

show the 7-10 raise. You have really soft values, and the 5th trump may not be pulling its weight since you have so little in the way of ruffing values.

 

Put it another way, you have one definite cover card (heart ace), and may cover 3 other losers in partner's hand, but it is very unlikely - all the covers are of 3rd round losers in hearts, spades, and diamonds. A limit raise should be more.

[Phil]

This is a constructive raise for me. The 5th trump isn't very important without a singleton and the JH is dubious.

[mike777]

Would someone please check his book because my recollection is that 4D looks something like x Axxxx Kxxx xxx and 4H looks more like x Axxxx xxxx xxx. Both have shortness.

 

 

with your example I would still bid 4h not 4d

4d shows 1-1.5 outside quick tricks.

 

 

Also perhaps a novice player should not play Bergen raises given all the different understandings of what one should bid with this hand and how different everyone calls/plays a constructive raise(2h), mixed raise(3c), limit raise(3d), preemptive raise(3h,4d and 4h). Note Bergen still has 2nt raises, 3nt raises, and 4c raises, plus splinter raises, void or stiff raises, for other types of hands.

[nige1]

♠ 10 7 ♥ A J 9 8 6 ♦ Q J 9 ♣ J 5 4 How to respond to partner's 1♥opening bid?

IMO treat as 10-12. The fifth heart, diamond sequence, and intermediates more than compensate for quackiness,

[PhilKing]

IMO treat as 10-12. The fifth heart, diamond sequence, and intermediates more than compensate for quackiness,

 

That's too easy.

 

Call me picky, but Bergen raises by the book are 7-10 (over which you could ask) or 11-12. :P

[nige1]

That's too easy. Call me picky, but Bergen raises by the book are 7-10 (over which you could ask) or 11-12. :P

OK, Picky :) Marty Bergen's view seems to echo Rosemary Cadell's catch-phrase "I shall never be slave to a knave." Thus, according to "Better Bidding with Bergen" the range of his so-called constructive raise is 7+ to 10- HCP. Anyway I rate the OP hand as a limit raise, Bergen's next range up :)

[straube]

From his book, here is an example of a 4D raise...

9 KQ743 KT54 843

 

vs a 4H raise...

9 KT743 T743 854

 

vs a 3D raise...

A7 KQJ6 9543 872

 

vs a 3H raise...

94 QJT6 97432 85

or

Q74 J9643 85 J74

 

vs a 3C raise (for spades here)

KT96 K53 92 T742

 

His definition of a 3C raise is four trumps and a reasonable single raise (7+ to 10- including distribution)

[mike777]

larry cohen on Bergen raises as of 6-13-2012 (please be sure and read his last couple of sentences.)

 

BERGEN RAISES

 

 

 

This convention was first invented by my good friend, Marty Bergen, when we were bridge partners in the 1980's.

 

As first written and played, here were the responses to a 1-of-a-Major opening:

 

 

 

3♣=6-10 in support and 4-card support

 

3♦=11-12 in support (limit raise) and 4-card support

3-of-the-major (raise)=0-5 and 4-card support

 

 

 

There are many add-ons and revisions, some as follows:

 

 

 

Inversion revision (make sure you and your partner know if you are playing the original way or this way):

 

The 3♣ and 3♦ responses are reversed in meaning

 

 

 

Major Add-ons

 

A jump to 3-of-the other major has a special meaning (there are many ways out there--I suggest not bidding it)

3NT=13-15 balanced with 4-3-3-3 (I recommend this)

 

4-level=Many possibilities (In "Standard" it would just be a Splinter Bid).

 

 

 

PH and Competition

 

It is crucial to have agreements regarding if this convention is used by a Passed Hand (I recommend not) or after a double or overcall (I recommend not). Some variations use the convention in all of these situations.

 

 

 

 

 

Because of all the potential confusion (all 3 of the sections above), I don't recommend this convention (sorry, Marty). I actually like a jump to 3-of-a-lower suit to be natural and invitation. So, 1♠-3♦ shows something like: ♠2

♥32

♦AQJ10876

♣K32

. You must decide with your partner if you are playing Bergen Raises, how you are playing them, or a possible alternative.

[straube]

Here's what Bergen said about it. It was nice of him to look at it.

 

10x AJ98x QJ9 Jxx

 

1H P ??

 

This hand involves hand evaluation + tactics

more than Bergen Raises.

Is it good enough for a limit raise?

What's the vulnerability + form of scoring?

 

Although the hand is very soft,

because of the 5th heart,

I would bid 3D.

[Fluffy]

I don't understand some people's comments

 

aren't bergen raises suposed to have already 4 trump support? i that's the case, what do you have to upgrade with a bunch of quacks in a balanced shape?

 

BTW I had to count my points 3 times before I could get to 9, my mind was evaluating this hand as 8 the first 2 subconciously for a reson.

[barsikb]

Here's what Bergen said about it. It was nice of him to look at it.

Wow! Thank you very much and please send my thanks to Mr. Bergen B-) :)

 

Big thankyou to everyone who replied for the discussion, learned a lot here about add-ons to the original convention.

 

PS. Somehow it makes me feel better that even experts have different opinions ;)