Quadruple fail

[AyunuS]

Check this out: http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/7963/quadruplefail.png

 

4 tables, 4 different suits bid, by 4 different directions, they bid at 4 consecutive levels, being 3, 4, 5, and 6, and each bid failed by 4. So apparently there's a huge disagreement on how people bid this thing. I don't know how nobody managed to bid something like 2H-3D-P-3S-P-4S or something more like that, but anyway, what would be correct way to bid this? I definitely like the 2H opener when vul since it's too weak for 3H IMO.

 

For anyone interested, the other tables were bid like this: 2H-P-P-2S-P-4NT-P-5H-6S-X, 3H, and 2H-3D-4C, each ending with 3 passes (duh).

[ggwhiz]

Very cool, a 400% ATB hand.

[ahydra]

Your auction (the one in the post, not the image!) looks sensible. Looks like it takes a club lead to beat 4S, unfortunately East is likely to find it.

 

ahydra

[rhm]

Apparently it is impossible to reach 3NT, the only game contract which is cold on any lead.

No matter that South is staring at a solid double stopper in hearts and can see the danger of heart ruffs in a trump contract.

Come to think of it and South could upgrade his balanced hand with this heart holding and strong diamond suit and overcall 2NT.

The bid can hardly be more dangerous than overcalling 3♦.

 

But let's forget that we are supposed to be playing Bridge.

We have an eight card major suit fit and that has to trump all other considerations. It would be irresponsible to play 3NT with that.

So forget about judgment and let's play the major and go down in grace like a robot...

 

Rainer Herrmann

[PhilKing]

Yep, I would overcall 2NT (the hand evaluates as a GOOD 15) and bid Stayman rather than transfer with weak spades.

[TylerE]

And this is why opening 2♥ on the hand is dumb. 3♥ > Pass > 2♥

[Fluffy]

2NT? come on, if you are going to be resulting you should pass and collect +500 :P

 

Now being serious, a 2NT overcall with the strength of only a 1NT opening comes from the fact that the stoppers are well allocated, you should not upgrade KQx wich is kinda normal, instead what you should is downgrade AKx, Axx or Kxx*. Still the 5 card diamond is pretty strong and the hand is pretty close, but I still think that objetivelly its a slight overbid.

 

 

The worst of all is AKQ in their suit, it is easy to prove that if you compare 2 exact same hands with AQJ versus AKQ, assuming the king is onside, and the weak 2 opener is not insane, you score more tricks on average having AQJ than AKQ, AQJ is 'stronger' than AKQ.

[rhm]

2NT? come on, if you are going to be resulting you should pass and collect +500 :P

I am not resulting. I only claim 2NT is by far more sensible than overcalling 3♦.

The logic that a flat hand is good enough to overcall 3♦ but not good enough for 2NT escapes me

2NT aims at game in notrumps, 3♦ aims at nothing. 3♦ has little upside and is probably more dangerous than 2NT.

The choice is between 2NT and Pass. It is a fallacy to believe to pass is not risky. It is as risky as to bid, the losses only occur on different layouts.

But both choices are reasonable, 3♦ is not.

 

Rainer Herrmann

[MickyB]

3♥ < Pass < 2♥

 

FYP

[TylerE]

Uh, no, you didn't. I think 2♥ on those cards at MPs is f'ing terrible bridge.

 

Partner will not be able to bid intelligently opposite, because he will be downgrading xx and stiff honor trump holdings too much, and is likely to get the defense wrong for the same reasons.

 

There are certain situations where I might consider opening a weak 2 on 7, but none of them include AT8xxxx.

[MickyB]

You seem to hold AT8xxxx in very high regard. It is a bad seven-card suit - think about how many tricks it'll provide declaring as opposed to defending opposite some likely holdings, and compare that with QJT9xxx. Partner is more likely to make the right decision in the auction if he imagines AQJTxx opposite than if he imagines AQJTxxx. Opening 3H on this hand is just volunteering the magic 200 if it's a part-score board or 500+ vs game if they can catch us.

 

Suggesting partner might get the defence wrong is circular. I try to play with people who know how to bid my style of preempts.

[JLOGIC]

Yeah I agree with rainer, the point is if you're gonna overcall 3D it's just better to overcall 2N. I would never pass so I like 2N.

[PhilKing]

I would overcall 3NT over 3♥ as well.