Choice of strains

[gnasher]

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[Finch]

I want a spade honour to bid on a doubleton here, so 4NT for me.

 

p.s. I may have been led by your thread title, but I don't think pass is absurd.

[Fluffy]

pass is certainly reasonable, 4NT is my choice, but this can be so awful when partner is 6133, so perhaps I should try 5♦ to avoid nonsens and at least play 5-3, but once in a while it can be a 5-2. So maybe just try 4♠ if I Can live with 5-2, or if not the pass... (mind blows)

 

I am starting to hate this problem, so I stick with my initial gut reaction and bid 4NT.

[mcphee]

I like 4NT, as many times with 6 decent S partner might well bid 3S rather than risk the 5 level on a possible 4/3. When he does not have decent 6 card !S he will have better minor cards and perhaps the gods will be with us.

[JLOGIC]

Pass seems unreasonable to me, it is not a compromise between bidding 4S and 4N. And of course, the thread title is accurate even if pass is an option since then our choice of strains is hearts lol.

 

I would go with 4S myself. Tappity tap.

[aguahombre]

p.s. I may have been led by your thread title, but I don't think pass is absurd.

Pass is a choice of strains. Oops, Justin beat me to that.

[MrAce]

I'd bid 5♦

[Codo]

I will try 4 ♠ too. I will decide at the table , whether I would sit for 4 ♠ doubled, but I usually will.

[dake50]

DQ under the 1H opener, but C:J10xx leads through opener's C-honor.

Partner didn't double here without hefty spades.

I won't gamble 5C/5D found AND making.

I try 4S.

[gszes]

Whatever reason p has for x of 4h I find it almost impossible to do

anything other than bid 5d. If p suddenly has found 4 tricks on defense

5d should have decent play if p is making a 5440 takeout sac well we

happen to have a wonderful 5 card dia suit to accomodate. If p had

6 decent spades they would almost assuredly bid 4s rather than x

so bidding 4s looks like we do not trust p a whit espcially on a hand

where distribution seems wicked at best and 4s could get slaughtered

via a tapping defense and 5d could be ice cold with the same defense.

 

AT MP i can see being willing to toss one board in the hopes we cannot

make anything yet we can set the opps in 4h 1 for +200. At IMPs this

same line of thinking can virtually ruin any partnership trust and lead to

horrendous results that are merely an irritant at MP.

 

4N seems tempting but that should be a red herring since p might all too

easily prefer clubs to dia with 3 clubs even and P failure to use

Michaels virtually guarantees they do not have 5 in either minor.

[axman]

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It’s a dubious undertaking to believe you will choose well without knowing the systems behind all of the calls.

 

With that said, knowing the south cards and what most would like to have to open at the one level, it seems unlikely for N to have the stuff to believe the partnership will have a makeable contact.

[nige1]

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gnasher's problem.

 

 

IMO Pass = 10, 4♠ = 9, 5♦ = 8, 4N = 7. Let your defence take the strain :(

Bidding would probably work better than passing, if you could always arrive in the right strain, But it's unclear what is the best bid to accomplish that. 4♠ gives you wriggle-room because, if doubled you can think again. 5♦ may work better than 4N when partner is 4-4, 3-3, or 2-3 in the minors.[/hv]

[Phil]

Close between 4s and pass but I like 4s. Partners double screams 6133 or maybe 51(34). With the latter if I knew he had 4d I'd bid 5d but with 4c I'd pass.

 

This is coming from the perspective of partner initially xing with 5233 16+ so pulling is easier.

[mfa1010]

I would try pass, but I'm very much in doubt. I take the sure plus (famous last words).

 

Phil, why would partner X 1♥ with 16+ 5233? I would need more with that shape, somethng like maybe 18+.

[aguahombre]

Close between 4s and pass but I like 4s. Partners double screams 6133 or maybe 51(34). With the latter if I knew he had 4d I'd bid 5d but with 4c I'd pass.

 

This is coming from the perspective of partner initially xing with 5233 16+ so pulling is easier.

For us it screams 6133 also, and agree with 4S. I don't have the perspective that pard would double 1H with 5-2-3-3 16 or even 17. Anyway, the pass has no allure for me when the opponents are screaming ten hearts and pard is confirming it with the double.

[Phil]

I would try pass, but I'm very much in doubt. I take the sure plus (famous last words).

 

Phil, why would partner X 1♥ with 16+ 5233? I would need more with that shape, somethng like maybe 18+.

 

I might be misquoting kokish but x and new suit can be a slightly lower range when the hand has support for the unbid suits. . This way when partner is weak, has five of their long suit and is short in yours, partner can retreat safely.

 

Furthermore IMO overcalling and reopening with a x doesn't promise the worlds fair - more like 13-15. If you are overcalling with 3532 17 this seems like too wide of a range for the reopening x.

[the hog]

I would bid 4NT. Pass is not absurd, but inferior. 4S is a second choice. As Nige always posts his scores, these are mine:

4NT 10, 4S 8, 5D 7, pass 4.

[r_prah]

I'm in the 4NT camp.

[benlessard]

At imps im bidding 4S.

 

At MP i pass with no conviction.

 

Good problem

[JLOGIC]

I might be misquoting kokish but x and new suit can be a slightly lower range when the hand has support for the unbid suits. . This way when partner is weak, has five of their long suit and is short in yours, partner can retreat safely.

 

Furthermore IMO overcalling and reopening with a x doesn't promise the worlds fair - more like 13-15. If you are overcalling with 3532 17 this seems like too wide of a range for the reopening x.

 

I think you misunderstood kokish, no way he would X with a 5233 16. I think the point is with 5044 16 you can double since your hand is so good for all suits (support for the unbid suits).

 

Anyways it doesn't really matter, partner is supposed to pass out 4H with a 5233 16 or 17

[JLOGIC]

I take the sure plus (famous last words).

 

 

Good luck with that! :P

 

Seriously though, I would expect partner to reopen X very aggressively with a heart void and think those hands might produce a double game swing. With a stiff heart it is probably a sure plus but you never know. If the opps only have 10 hearts, they presumably have only 18 high at most so I would not be surprised to see some shape. If that happens to come in the form of a diamond void that is bad for our sure plus. Even a stiff diamond opposite a stiff club in the other hand could be very bad for us (not that opener has to have a stiff but it's still scary, and if he opened light vul he is more likely to have shape even though he could just have a normal 11 or 12 or 13 count obv).

[mfa1010]

Good luck with that! :P

 

Seriously though, I would expect partner to reopen X very aggressively with a heart void and think those hands might produce a double game swing. With a stiff heart it is probably a sure plus but you never know. If the opps only have 10 hearts, they presumably have only 18 high at most so I would not be surprised to see some shape. If that happens to come in the form of a diamond void that is bad for our sure plus. Even a stiff diamond opposite a stiff club in the other hand could be very bad for us (not that opener has to have a stiff but it's still scary, and if he opened light vul he is more likely to have shape even though he could just have a normal 11 or 12 or 13 count obv).

I agree I can't know, and pass will concede 790 with a significant frequency. On the other hand if both sides go down pass is not just a small but a huge imp-winner. +200 at both tables = 9 imps etc. It probably matters a great deal how aggressive the opponents are (= how often we will catch them with flattish hands). It is a very tough problem in my view.

 

I could see myself double 4♥ with 5233 16-17 if the values are sharp (aces etc.) as a battlefield decision. With 6-0 in the majors partner should be willing to guess 4♠ himself a lot, if his suit is just reasonably good. So there are not that many voids in his range. 5044 is possible, but 5530-hands would have bid Michaels.

[PhilKing]

I could see myself double 4♥ with 5233 16-17 if the values are sharp (aces etc.) as a battlefield decision.

 

That reminds of General Melchett in Blackadder Goes Forth. He will virtually always think he has the right shape send us over the top.

 

I think voids are a big part of our range, because with a void we will double back in with almost our whole range, but with a singleton, we need a suitable max.

[mfa1010]

I think voids are a big part of our range, because with a void we will double back in with almost our whole range (...)

That reminds of stories from Donald Duck and the Minus Four Digits.

[rogerclee]

I would pass with some reservations, tough problem. I think I prefer 4N to 4S, 4S seems like taking an IMO antipercentage gamble regarding the quality of partner's spades.