Roger lee and doubles

[mike777]

http://webutil.bridgebase.com/v2/news_fetch.php?id=1565

 

 

Roger takes on a discussion that is common, very common but difficult for most of us.

 

Thank you Roger. Thank you very much.

[JLOGIC]

cleeeee

[Phil]

I taught a 3 week series on takeout doubles that just ended. A lot of my challenges were trying to show my students the following;

 

- doubling on 4333 is ok (sorry Brits!)

- you don't need four cards in the other major

- do not overcall when you have 2335minor

- overcall and don't double when you have a 5 card major

- ok to x with 44M and 3 in their minor

- upper limit for an overcall is a lot higher than you might think

 

 

And then clees transcript came out which I insta forwarded lol. Forums rule!!

[rogerclee]

There's gonna be a few more, stay tuned!

[MickyB]

Good stuff, but I strongly disagree with doubling after 1H-P-2H holding a balanced 9-count. Partner is still there.

[PhilKing]

Good stuff, but I strongly disagree with doubling after 1H-P-2H holding a balanced 9-count. Partner is still there.

 

I think you should reread it.

[MickyB]

I think you should reread it.

 

Done. Now what?

[Fluffy]

now notice the passed hand argument?, if you had previously done so I disagree with you about not doubling with a passed hand 4243 9 count even vulnerable, but I only play MPs.

[PhilKing]

Done. Now what?

 

Oh, lol. My bad - didn't see the full answer to the Q and A.

[rogerclee]

Good stuff, but I strongly disagree with doubling after 1H-P-2H holding a balanced 9-count. Partner is still there.

I tried to make it clear that I thought that doubling on hands like the one is a partnership decision, not one that I would just do. I also said it was close, and that either style of bridge is fine to me.

 

TBH I would not be surprised to learn that a lot of good players disagree with something I wrote. That seems fine to me, it was not geared towards top players. The thing I wanted to underscore the most is that non-experts tend to be too passive in the auction. I wanted to show a lot of hands where a non-expert would probably consider it insane to bid, when in reality it is reasonably close.

[barmar]

Balancing is a more complicated issue than takeout doubles in general. Mike Lawrence recently put a vastly revised version of his book on balancing.

[r_prah]

Great exposition, outlining modern expert treatment. My only disagreement is on hand #3, I would not double with a balanced 10 count.

[Flem72]

I'm interested in the theoretical basis for doubling in front of partner, who will balance with virtually any hand that would make the double successful. HCP distribution? I note that on hands 5 & 6, doubler's partner has a pretty normal balancing call.

[kuhchung]

Great exposition, outlining modern expert treatment. My only disagreement is on hand #3, I would not double with a balanced 10 count.

 

Is that the hand with 2443 A K K after (1S) to you?

 

I was surprised at that double. Recalibrating!

[dustinst22]

 

- upper limit for an overcall is a lot higher than you might think

 

 

 

 

 

What's your upper limit for an overcall, Phil?

[Phil]

What's your upper limit for an overcall, Phil?

For me the practical limit is around 19 but if pressed I could construct a hand where it is higher.

[cherdano]

I really don't like where this is going. First Larry Cohen teaches everyone to compete aggressively with a fit, now Roger is teaching them to look for fits aggressively. Will I ever get to play 2H in the club any more?

[JLOGIC]

Adapt and start doubling 3m when theyre red and you have 23 HCP. People overcompeting vul because they think they can't sell out is a great spot if you know how to X and defend well, lots of tops.

[r_prah]

Is that the hand with 2443 A K K after (1S) to you?

 

I was surprised at that double. Recalibrating!

 

Yes, that is the hand.

[1eyedjack]

I really don't like where this is going. First Larry Cohen teaches everyone to compete aggressively with a fit, now Roger is teaching them to look for fits aggressively. Will I ever get to play 2H in the club any more?

Perhaps it doesn't matter too much provided that both members of the partnership adopt the same style. Both Lee-style or both Cohen-style, but never the twain should meet?

[PhilKing]

Perhaps it doesn't matter too much provided that both members of the partnership adopt the same style. Both Lee-style or both Cohen-style, but never the twain should meet?

 

I don't think they are in any way mutually exclusive (think of the Bergen/Cohen partnership - one of the most aggressive of all time). And as pointed out the only way to stop people taking the proverbial is by punishing them when they get out of line.

[cherdano]

Adapt and start doubling 3m when theyre red and you have 23 HCP. People overcompeting vul because they think they can't sell out is a great spot if you know how to X and defend well, lots of tops.

But defending is more difficult than declaring, and with 23 hcp I am entitled to my +140. No reason to risk that good score. So I usually take the push.

:P

[gwnn]

I'm interested in the theoretical basis for doubling in front of partner, who will balance with virtually any hand that would make the double successful. HCP distribution? I note that on hands 5 & 6, doubler's partner has a pretty normal balancing call.

On hands 5&6, we are the ones who are balancing (rogerclee wasn't advocating a 1st round double), which hands are you talking about exactly?

[barmar]

Will I ever get to play 2H in the club any more?

I recall reading about a bridge teacher who had some classes where he told the students that they were simply not allowed to let the opponents play 2-level undoubled contracts, to get them comfortable with competing and balancing.

[JLOGIC]

But defending is more difficult than declaring, and with 23 hcp I am entitled to my +140. No reason to risk that good score. So I usually take the push.

:P

 

I dunno. I played in a regional with haspel once and we started calling people like this "balancing wizards." They are my favorite kind of opp, those who will never sell out to 2M. The other obvious thing to do against those kind of people is to not game try (eg 1D p 1H p 2H just pass with 11) since they are very likely to balance, andif they don't playing 2 is often fine anyways.