They sent it back...

[mfa1010]

[hv=pc=n&s=sq9872h63daq82c62&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p1d4hppdp4s5hppdrpp]133|200[/hv]

 

1♦ was precision style (unbal 10-15 with diamonds or 11-13 bal).

So X of 4♥ was a shape takeout.

 

Comments?

[ArtK78]

I would rather play for 3 tricks defending hearts than 9 or more tricks playing spades. But it is really a guess.

[gnasher]

I don't see how LHO, as a passed hand, can be confident of making. On the other hand, I don't see why I thought 5♥ was going down. I have no likely defensive tricks and quite a lot of offence. I would have bid 5♠ on the previous round, and now I have even more reason to bid it.

 

I'd bid 5♠.

[Fluffy]

with double fit I normally bid 5/5, I don't think I would had doubled in first place.

[lamford]

5S, although if partner fidgeted over the redouble, I would pass.

[aguahombre]

Lamford's concern is a common theme. We made a really dumb choice on the previous round, and partner's table action might well prevent us from unscrewing it.

[dake50]

I don't see why I thought 5♥ was going down. I have no likely defensive tricks and quite a lot of offence.

I would have bid 5♠ on the previous round, and now I have even more reason to bid it. -- gnasher

***I think that double was to distinguish a 3-pointer from this 8-pointer added to partner's opening.

Right, the double fit makes 5S a winner now, even if you tried to steal a cheap 4S last round.

[benlessard]

its called an undo redouble.

[aguahombre]

its called an undo redouble.

And, hopefully CHO didn't undo our chance to undo.

[kfay]

I don't see how LHO, as a passed hand, can be confident of making. On the other hand, I don't see why I thought 5♥ was going down. I have no likely defensive tricks and quite a lot of offence. I would have bid 5♠ on the previous round, and now I have even more reason to bid it.

 

I'd bid 5♠.

 

Isn't this double just protecting equity? It's our hand, I was probably making 4♠, and PH-opposite-a-preempt just bid to the 5-level; I don't need to be certain where my tricks are coming from I just need to convey the message to partner that these guys are jobbing us. The "correct" action seems like a total guess to me but but I would probably double.

 

Anyway, I agree it's time to bid 5♠ now.

[ArtK78]

I would really like to see the result of this hand. I am the only one (among the posters) willing to sit for the redouble. I suspect that West's redouble is an attempt to get us to run.

[mfa1010]

[hv=pc=n&s=sq9872h63daq82c62&w=sajt6ha952d3ct943&n=sk543hdkjt654ckq7&e=shkqjt874d97caj85]399|300[/hv]

 

The winning action was to run to 5♠X-2. -300 instead of -1000 in 5♥R.

 

I wouldn't expect W's XX to be an attempt to get us to run as such, rather that he will be prepared for 5♠. But a bad split in spades also means no tricks in spades against 5♥.

[mfa1010]

5S, although if partner fidgeted over the redouble, I would pass.

An interesting question is what would constitute UI fidgety after a five-level redouble.

[ArtK78]

[hv=pc=n&s=sq9872h63daq82c62&w=sajt6ha952d3ct943&n=sk543hdkjt654ckq7&e=shkqjt874d97caj85]399|300[/hv]

 

The winning action was to run to 5♠X-2. -300 instead of -1000 in 5♥R.

 

I wouldn't expect W's XX to be an attempt to get us to run as such, rather that he will be prepared for 5♠. But a bad split in spades also means no tricks in spades against 5♥.

So, the bottom line is that West erred with his redouble. It allowed N/S to run to 5♠x and get out for -300 as opposed to the -650 that E/W was getting in 5♥x. I have sympathy for West, who must have thought that it would be Christmas Day if N/S ran to 5♠, but he was wrong about that.

 

I agree with the chorus that critisized the double of 5♥. Having done so, I am not happy about the run, as it seemed that running was a sure minus while sitting had a chance for a plus score. And I have seen players redouble in this situation to goad the other side into running. But the run was right, and the redouble very wrong until it ended the auction.

 

By the way, I would like to hear what West would have said to his partner in 5♥xx if East's hand was --- KQJTxxx AK J8xx

[gnasher]

By the way, I would like to hear what West would have said to his partner in 5♥xx if East's hand was --- KQJTxxx AK J8xx

I wouldn't bother saying anything. Turning -100 into -200 is hardly a disaster, assuming it was IMPs. And it might have led to +500.

[aguahombre]

An interesting question is what would constitute UI fidgety after a five-level redouble.

You tell us. We still don't know if we had that problem in your case, or if we just made up a hypothetical. All we know for sure is South put himself in the position for it to be a problem.

 

Edit: If North is alive, there would have been some figiting, however slight in this case...no matter what he held.

Edited May 21, 2013 by aguahombre

[ArtK78]

I wouldn't bother saying anything. Turning -100 into -200 is hardly a disaster, assuming it was IMPs. And it might have led to +500.

Perhaps I should phrase this another way:

 

You hold:

 

AJT6

Axxx

x

T9xx

 

The bidding, with you as the dealer, is:

 

P - (1♦) - 4♥ - (P)

P - (x) - P - (4♠)

?

 

The opps are playing Precision, so the reopening double is likely to be a distributional hand, not a powerhouse.

 

Your action?

[gwnn]

In that case, the answer is "sorry partner that I took the percentage action in assuming that your points are outside diamonds and not expecting half of them in opener's suit. Sorry for not being omniscient and needing to rely on probabilities."

[mfa1010]

An interesting question is what would constitute UI fidgety after a five-level redouble.

 

You tell us. We still don't know if we had that problem in your case, or if we just made up a hypothetical. All we know for sure is South put himself in the position for it to be a problem.

 

Edit: If North is alive, there would have been some figiting, however slight in this case...no matter what he held.

My question was hypothetical. So many were discussing break-of-tempo without having heard, if there even was any.

So I was wondering what "normal tempo" would be here and how much fidgety it would take to constitute relevant UI. Since many seem to expect there will be fidgiting even before having heard about it.

A strong TD from around here stated that it would be good bridge always to take just a few seconds over XX, and that a very fast pass would be unusual indeed.

[mfa1010]

Perhaps I should phrase this another way:

 

You hold:

 

AJT6

Axxx

x

T9xx

 

The bidding, with you as the dealer, is:

 

P - (1♦) - 4♥ - (P)

P - (x) - P - (4♠)

?

 

The opps are playing Precision, so the reopening double is likely to be a distributional hand, not a powerhouse.

 

Your action?

In my opinion are 5♥ and XX both very normal bids with the west hand.

[ArtK78]

In my opinion are 5♥ and XX both very normal bids with the west hand.

That is interesting.

 

You have some very reasonable defense against 4♠, but opposite a nonvulnerable 4♥ preempt you are so confident about making 11 tricks you not only bid 5♥ but when doubled you send it back. Certainly 3 minor suit losers are not out of the question.

 

I can buy the 5♥ bid, but the redouble seems a bit much.

[wank]

why are you so worried about bluing something that goes 1 off? the odds are massively in your favour.

[mfa1010]

That is interesting.

 

You have some very reasonable defense against 4♠, but opposite a nonvulnerable 4♥ preempt you are so confident about making 11 tricks you not only bid 5♥ but when doubled you send it back. Certainly 3 minor suit losers are not out of the question.

 

I can buy the 5♥ bid, but the redouble seems a bit much.

Down 1 in 5♥R is no big deal.

If you think the redouble is out of line on the actual west hand with so little offense then I wonder what you were hoping/expecting west to have, when you passed 5♥R as south. If west tends to be even better (like ♦-void also) then passing 5♥R looks suicidal.

[aguahombre]

My question was hypothetical. So many were discussing break-of-tempo without having heard, if there even was any.

So I was wondering what "normal tempo" would be here and how much fidgety it would take to constitute relevant UI. Since many seem to expect there will be fidgiting even before having heard about it.

A strong TD from around here stated that it would be good bridge always to take just a few seconds over XX, and that a very fast pass would be unusual indeed.

You and the strong TD are right in your views. I think those of us who threw in the possibility of a tempo break where none had been introduced, were just giving another reason why South's Double instead of 5S on the previous round could go wrong.

[mfa1010]

You and the strong TD are right in your views. I think those of us who threw in the possibility of a tempo break where none had been introduced, were just giving another reason why South's Double instead of 5S on the previous round could go wrong.

Ok :)

One needs to be pretty far-sighted, though, to count in the possibility that it might go XX-slow pass-pass- back to us, if we double 5♥, and therefore we'd better not double.