A tough one

[niki98]

[hv=pc=n&e=sakjt8hdakqj643cq&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p3s(Gambling%2C%20can%20be%20a%20major%2C%20solid%20suit%2C%20max%20one%20side%20Q)]133|200[/hv]

First problem: What do you overcall in this position?

[hv=pc=n&e=sakjt8hdakqj643cq&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p3s(Gambling%2C%20can%20be%20a%20major%2C%20solid%20suit%2C%20max%20one%20side%20Q)6d6hdp]133|200[/hv]

Second problem: What do you bid assuming you overcalled 6♦ and this is what happens (this is what happened in our table). IMPs.

[Trinidad]

First problem:

There are many options and I have no problem with 6♦.

 

Second problem:

• 
   
  
• It seems that South knows that North has hearts. That indicates that he has a club honor as well as a spade honor. If that is true, we probably won't make 6♠.
  
• In principle, partner's double shows that he is not interested in our side declaring.
  

Those are two reasons why I would pass.

 

Rik

[PhilKing]

Wow! This problem makes me feel ill.

 

I play my 1NT defence against a 3NT opening (this effectively is), which does not leave me with a suitable option. A 3NT overcall should show a huge two-suiter (not majors - I bid 4♣ with that), but I have not agreed it.

 

The solution is to Pass over 3♠. I am quite confident of that! :ph34r:

[niki98]

Wow! This problem makes me feel ill.

 

I play my 1NT defence against a 3NT opening (this effectively is), which does not leave me with a suitable option. A 3NT overcall possibly should show a huge two-suiter, but I have not agreed it.

 

The solution is to Pass over 3♠. I am quite confident of that.

 

To make it even more interesting (not only for you), you are playing on first table, last round, on vugraph :rolleyes:

[Winstonm]

As a passed hand, with partner announcing a LONG diamond hand, isn't the double essentially unilateral?

[aguahombre]

As a passed hand, with partner announcing a LONG diamond hand, isn't the double essentially unilateral?

So, you are saying opener's suit is clubs? O.K.

[Winstonm]

So, you are saying opener's suit is clubs? O.K.

I did not see the "gambling" nature of the 3S bid. When did the yellow highlighting start?

[rmnka447]

Comment deleted

[bigbenvic]

Does X show spades? If it would have I'd x planning on bidding 6♦ on my next bid as I wouldn't expect a 6♥ response from RHO!

 

If not then I bid 6♦ and even though I like the thought process of Trinidad, I'm still bidding 6♠ over 6♥ as I might not get a club lead as opener will be on lead and may try to take their heart trick and I may be able to find a way to make when RHO has the A♣ and the trump Queen.

[Cyberyeti]

I think Trinidad is wrong, wouldn't you bid 6♥ with xxxx, xxxx, void, many 5 card club holdings ? it can easily be a p/c assuming partner has a major, I'd bid 6♠.

[PhilG007]

In the first problem,I would pass(yes you read it right)if partner doubles

for takeout,you can pass it for penalties. Dont be seduced by the pretty

pics in the diamond suit Yes,you have 7 of them..but where are the other

six(?) If luck is against you,they will be with South.Then the next thing

you will hear is "double" on your left and you can make ready the sackcloth

and ashes. Preempts give warning that there is wild distribution around the table.

It will pay to proceed with extreme caution.

 

In the second problem,it's tricky ground. Partner has doubled for penalties

and partner,however suspect,must be trusted. Taking the double out into

7D would be bad for 2 reasons. Firstly,you are,in effect,calling your partner

a liar. Secondly,if 7D also fails where 6H is doomed,you will have some explaining

to do. On the other side if 6HX makes,you can be justified in bawling partner out (!)

[niki98]

I think I must explain some things. 3♠ is Gambling (can be a major) with maximum one side Queen. 6♥ means that the partner of the 3♠ opener has found which is the suit (♥). I am not quite sure what the X of 6♥ means, I was bidding with the 3♠ hand and I still won't post what happened in this board (it was truly on vugraph).

[aguahombre]

It was mentioned early on that the 6H bid must be based on a club honor and the spade queen, or else he would not have known opener's suit was hearts. I am not sure I buy this, because he might indeed not have the spade queen and still be in a Pass/correct mode.

 

Opener is the OP, and it seems he actually held Hearts from what he says. But, we don't really know if his partner was on that waivelength. Anyway, I think we just have to sit the double and eat the result.

[gszes]

I see no reason why we cannot x 3s (an artificial bid) to show spades. We can always jump to

6d later if needed. for now why not hope p can raise spades and we can then nicely key card

looking for 7s?????

 

 

 

We will never know how the bidding might have gone after x so having hung ourselves out to dry

I see little recourse but to pass and hope against hope 7s does not make,

[aguahombre]

I see no reason why we cannot x 3s (an artificial bid) to show spades. We can always jump to

6d later if needed. for now why not hope p can raise spades and we can then nicely key card

looking for 7s?????

 

We will never know how the bidding might have gone after x so having hung ourselves out to dry

I see little recourse but to pass and hope against hope 7s does not make,

We would hope the bidding would not go the same way back to you after that double.

[ArtK78]

As for the initial action over 3♠, I have no problem with either double or 6♦. Both are rational choices, and both have their pros and cons.

 

As for the action over 6♥x, at IMP scoring, I would bid 6♠. Experience teaches that it is usually right to bid one more on wildly distributional hands. We may not have any defensive tricks against 6♥, or we may beat it for a small plus score. True, 6♠ or 7♦ may not make, but it doesn't take much for either of them to make or for it to be a cheap save (or insurance).

 

It is also possible that 6 of both majors is making.

[PhilKing]

For me, doubling 3♠ would show a take out double of a minor.

 

Passing and cueing or bidding lots of diamonds by implication will show spades.

 

Oh, and with a freak you should take it slow. Bidding 6♦ just makes it super-easy for them and impossible for us.

[Winstonm]

I think I must explain some things. 3♠ is Gambling (can be a major) with maximum one side Queen. 6♥ means that the partner of the 3♠ opener has found which is the suit (♥). I am not quite sure what the X of 6♥ means, I was bidding with the 3♠ hand and I still won't post what happened in this board (it was truly on vugraph).

 

thx the explanation helps. 6D a reasonable attempt on problem 1. Problem 2, double must be an attempt to show some values so 6S is a reasonable call - which would be my choice.

[Trinidad]

Problem 2, double must be an attempt to show some values...

I would think that a situation where:

- LHO preempts

- your partner voluntarily jumps to a slam

- your RHO finds a bid

 

is particularly suited for playing pass as forcing. Double is not needed to show values. Your partner bid to a slam voluntarily, unilateraly and to make. We don't need to worry whether our side has the values to take 2 tricks on defense.

 

We need to worry whether our side has defensive or offensive values. With offense you bid. With defense, or without offense, you double. If you don't know you pass and ask partner to decide. (There are other ways to play forcing pass, but as far as I know this is still standard.)

 

So, partner's double has either told us that he is broke or that he has a hand that is suitable for defense. That argues for passing, not for bidding.

 

Rik

[gszes]

We would hope the bidding would not go the same way back to you after that double.

 

Best of all worlds. P will not x 6h "with no further interest which can be a pile of nothing" the 3s x

promises spades not the worlds fair. If p x 6h we expect them to be able to take at least 2 tricks

since we do not promise any. Second what special circumstances would allow lho to "know" their

p suit was hearts and not diamonds (a suit not mentioned yet) ??? It is unreasonable to assume

from looking at your hand the bidding will continue as before:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[Fluffy]

what is going on? south has no defence and knows north has no defence, and has something close to 4414 so defends.

 

Why did partner double? that doesn't make sense, he should have ♣A as long as some diamonds given south's bidding, assuming that he thinks pass is forcing, but is pass forcing? south is an unpassed hand, nobody said we are attacking. I think partner is doubling because he has a trick and doesn't want us to defend or pass out.

 

There is another option: Partner has a very big heart stack, and north didn't understand the 6♥ bid as pass/correct.

 

I don't think the latter should happen, but I can't risk that north has hearts and we have a grand slam, So I bid on, bidding on to 6♠ or 7♦? I think 6♠ is plenty, partner will know to raise if he reads the auction properly, and he will with more diamonds than spades.

[niki98]

[hv=pc=n&s=sq6h8632d98ckj753&w=s942ht7dt72cat864&n=s753hakqj954d5c92&e=sakjt8hdakqj643cq&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=p3s(Gambling)6d6hdp6sppp]399|300[/hv]

 

This is what happened in the board. I will say my opinion:

6♦ looks OK to me. 6♥ isn't pass correct or something. My partner knows that I have ♥ or ♦ but since his RHO has bid 6♦ he knows I am with ♥ which also means to the opponent that my partner has honours in the two other suits. The X in my opinion means partner I have a trick which is most likely A♣, so 6♠ is reasonable.