The little things that they do

[mycroft]

Ah well, if we're going there - how about the ones that either drop them short-edge-overlap or fan them out in little flowers? Or as KJT36?

[Vampyr]

What I hate is when a player puts out dummy so that the visible pips are at the bottom of the card and upside down from declarer's point of view. When I ask them to rectify it, as I always do, since what they have done is not the legal way of displaying dummy,

 

Where do you get the idea that this is illegal?

[WellSpyder]

I think this comes from sorting their hands in the opposite order than most (I hope you agree that this is their right -- nothing dicates the order of cards in an unexposed hand), so the natural way to lay them down results in this. Other players who sort their hands this way, but want to lay them down properly, do a different annoying thing: "dealing" the cards to dummy one card at a time.

Oh dear! Is this annoying? I rather think I might do this. How else should I get them looking right in the dummy?

[aguahombre]

Where do you get the idea that this is illegal?

If you call not doing what the rules say to do illegal, then 41D will suffice. Some think that is just a suggestion.

 

IMO, when it says "this is how it is done", they means it should be done that way rather than just a casual observation of how people often do it.

[ggwhiz]

We have a good player who as declarer will often put his cards back in the board after seeing the opening lead and say "making 5".

 

Do I let it slide? Not on your life, I double dummy the defence with his hand exposed so he doesn't do it against me anymore.

 

I don't let other things slide unless it's against personable rookies and as a result usually only deal with a single occurence.

[Vampyr]

Oh dear! Is this annoying? I rather think I might do this. How else should I get them looking right in the dummy?

 

I think that I put them down one at a time too, but I am guessing that what barmar is calling annoying is when this is done pretentiously and slowly, with much snapping of the cards.

[ahydra]

I like to claim a lot (mainly because I can be quite a slow player at times). However there are a couple of pairs in my club who don't like declarer claiming and they always ask to "play it out". Not wanting to make a fuss about it I play it out with my hand exposed, or simply state "I would claim, but you don't like it, so I'll play on" at the point when I would have claimed (probably unnecessary).

 

I figure surely it's better if they learn to adjudicate and accept/reject claims? Perhaps I should just call the TD and get them to explain how the claim works?

 

ahydra

[chrism]

That is at least better than the "discovery claim", where declarer claims without a line, and when a defender objects or asks for clarification, says "well, maybe we had better just play it out" having magically inferred the location of a missing honor, existence of the 13th trump, etc.

[Finch]

Oh dear! Is this annoying? I rather think I might do this. How else should I get them looking right in the dummy?

 

There's usually plenty of time to sort your hand properly before putting it down between the third pass and the opening lead being faced.

I don't sort my hand at all (other than by suit) during the auction.

[blackshoe]

Where do you get the idea that this is illegal?

Probably Law 41D. However, even if doing it is not illegal under that law, it's illegal under 74A2.

[iviehoff]

We have a good player who as declarer will often put his cards back in the board after seeing the opening lead and say "making 5".

 

Do I let it slide? Not on your life, I double dummy the defence with his hand exposed so he doesn't do it against me anymore.

That's not your job, except to the extent that you feel it necessary to educate the director. Simply call the director and say you don't accede to the claim. Director must now adjudicate the claim. If the director is competent, that will suffice to educate the player not to do it again.

[iviehoff]

That is at least better than the "discovery claim", where declarer claims without a line, and when a defender objects or asks for clarification, says "well, maybe we had better just play it out" having magically inferred the location of a missing honor, existence of the 13th trump, etc.

Again, you just call the director at this point and have the claim adjudicated. A director of fairly basic competence will not allow the declarer to take into account a trump he did not mention at the time of the claim, nor the location of a missing honour. Those ones are specifically mentioned in the rules, and in general I find weaker directors even harsher against dodgy claims than better ones.

[blackshoe]

I like to claim a lot (mainly because I can be quite a slow player at times). However there are a couple of pairs in my club who don't like declarer claiming and they always ask to "play it out". Not wanting to make a fuss about it I play it out with my hand exposed, or simply state "I would claim, but you don't like it, so I'll play on" at the point when I would have claimed (probably unnecessary).

 

I figure surely it's better if they learn to adjudicate and accept/reject claims? Perhaps I should just call the TD and get them to explain how the claim works?

If you claim and they ask to play it out, you have no choice but to call the director. Be kind: an instant stentorian "Director!" will probably intimidate these poor folks. Try "I can't legally do that; we'll need the director to sort it out". If you recognize the futility of claiming against them, my advice would be don't claim — you probably won't save any time. As for education, as you imply that's the TD's job. Besides, it sounds like no matter how much education these opponents receive, they're never going to get it. :blink:

[nige1]

If you claim and they ask to play it out, you have no choice but to call the director. Be kind: an instant stentorian "Director!" will probably intimidate these poor folks. Try "I can't legally do that; we'll need the director to sort it out". If you recognize the futility of claiming against them, my advice would be don't claim — you probably won't save any time. As for education, as you imply that's the TD's job. Besides, it sounds like no matter how much education these opponents receive, they're never going to get it. :blink:

Under current law, is declarer allowed to say "I'm not claiming. But with your permission, I'm going to play the rest of the tricks with my cards face-up"? If so, that might speed up the game without harassing such defenders.

[aguahombre]

Under current law, is declarer allowed to say "I'm not claiming. But with your permission, I'm going to play the rest of the tricks with my cards face-up." If so, that might speed up the game without harassing such defenders.

Didn't we do this number before in the thread where Declarer showed a defender his cards?

[iviehoff]

Under current law, is declarer allowed to say "I'm not claiming. But with your permission, I'm going to play the rest of the tricks with my cards face-up." If so, that might speed up the game without harassing such defenders.

L68A says "A contestant also claims when he suggests that play be curtailed, or when he shows his cards (unless he demonstrably

did not intend to claim – for example, if declarer faces his cards after an opening lead out of turn Law 54, not this Law, will apply)."

 

It seems obvious to argue that prefacing your statement with "I'm not claiming but..." means that you demonstrably aren't claiming. But I'd disagree. What it often means is that a player is trying to duck out of the responsibilities of actually claiming properly, such as stating a line of play he'll be held to, while obtaining some of the advantages. So I'd be inclined to rule it was a claim despite the statement that it wasn't, and the asking the opps if they'd be willing.

 

It's only a very little point, but another reason I'm wary of this is that there can be a coffeehouse - sometimes showing the opps your cards enables you to learn something from their reaction to seeing them. It's probably a very rare situation, but it's something to bear in mind.

 

Claiming is part of the game and your opponents are going to have to get used to it. It's an education to them to have to cope with your claim. So today it's going to take as long as playing it out, but in future if you persist they'll get used to it. Clearly one doesn't claim against very weak players until it's really clear cut, but they really must learn to cope with simple claims.

 

I probably shouldn't say this, and you can't make a habit of doing it this way, but I can imagine someone thinking the way around this is just to hold your cards a bit low so that the opponent can see them, but thinks you aren't doing it deliberately. Probably someone will be kind enough to tell you to lift your cards up, but even the most honest of "I don't take advantage" players finds it very hard to put out of their mind what they have seen: if what there is to see is that it just doesn't matter, they'll now be able to play quickly. Of course this would be just how to pull off the coffeehouse.

[blackshoe]

Yes we did. I'm not inclined to revisit it - although it does occur to me to wonder whyinhell declarer would want to do that. IME it doesn't speed up the game - even seeing three of four hands these folks can't figure out what's going on. :ph34r:

[paua]

I am wondering what other little things people put up with, normally without calling the director?

 

I met a pair, husband and wife, where the wife making her first discard would tap it on the edge first, "wake up dear". I would report this to the director now.

 

I had another woman who called the cards from dummy, "the three please luvvie". Every card !

 

I hate declarers playing from dummy before LHO.

 

I realy hate defenders making comment on the dummy.

 

I really really hate dummy playing a singleton, especially on the first trick.

I've even known a defender to play the singleton for dummy because they didn't want to wait !

[nige1]

Yes we did. I'm not inclined to revisit it - although it does occur to me to wonder whyinhell declarer would want to do that. IME it doesn't speed up the game - even seeing three of four hands these folks can't figure out what's going on. :ph34r:

On line, it usually does speed up the game. Defenders have less to think about when playing double-dummy. And they often concede after a trick or two.

[GreenMan]

I met a pair, husband and wife, where the wife making her first discard would tap it on the edge first, "wake up dear". I would report this to the director now.

 

I've known a couple of men who, when their wife/partners were declaring, would announce after each trick, "In the dummy" or "In your hand." They generally only get to do it once or twice before I remind them it's illegal.

[ggwhiz]

I had another woman who called the cards from dummy, "the three please luvvie". Every card !

 

Hehe. I played against one of those once and when my pard shouted "Get a room!" she stopped.

[Antrax]

I really really hate dummy playing a singleton, especially on the first trick.

As third hand, when this happens I just don't play until declarer calls for a card from dummy. Doesn't win me a lot of friends.

[blackshoe]

Heh. I once got, from declarer, a somewhat exasperated "are you going to play?" I replied "not until you play from dummy" where, of course, there was a singleton. I might have done the same if dummy had "played" the singleton by himself.

[nige1]

I've known a couple of men who, when their wife/partners were declaring, would announce after each trick, "In the dummy" or "In your hand." They generally only get to do it once or twice before I remind them it's illegal.

Some players at the club defend that behaviour, saying that it's OK for dummy to try to prevent declarer's infraction. If you wait until after partner has started to lead from the wrong hand, is it legal to try to stop him?

[aguahombre]

Some players at the club defend that behaviour, saying that it's OK for dummy to try to prevent declarer's infraction. If you wait until after partner has started to lead from the wrong hand, is it legal to try to stop him?

Yes. I am sure Declarer starting to pull from hand or starting to say something is a valid trigger.