Another Strong 2C Auction Interference

[TWO4BRIDGE]

( p ) - 2C - ( 2H ) - p!

( p ) - DBL = ?

 

Responder's pass! was positive but with no good 5+ card suit ( DBL would have been "bust" ).

 

Sooo, what should Opener's DBL mean here ? Penalty or T/O ?

[EricK]

I would have thought that double was penalties here. Else you have no way of penalising them on this auction.

[antonylee]

Funny, I would have thought it is T/O; otherwise you have no bid(?) with AKxx xx AKQx AKx.

[ggwhiz]

I play it as I would have rebid 2nt. Systems on if pard bids, added chance pard can pass and also play pards pass vs double as the poster does.

 

I would risk double with the above example too. It's a big parlay for us to end up in 3nt down and we might right side it.

[the_clown]

Surely t/o, what else can you do with 4-4-4-1 or similar. Furthermore the opponent is seating over you and if partner was very short in the suit he may have bid a suit of his own instead of passing. And if partner has some cards in the suit, it is almost impossible that you can make a clear pen X.

[barmar]

if partner was very short in the suit he may have bid a suit of his own instead of passing.

I think the common agreement is that if responder bids something, he's showing a weak hand. Pass and double are his positive actions.

 

Since responder's pass is forcing, opener has to do something. He can bid a suit if he has one, or double if he has a balanced hand. Responder now can decide whether to leave the double in (reasonable with two balanced hands, unless you have slam aspirations), or show his own suit now.

[PhilKing]

Punish them!

[cherdano]

For me it's takeout, typically balanced with a doubleton in their suit.

[Zelandakh]

I think most club players play this X as takeout and 2NT as natural but it is not a bad idea to reverse these two, so that X = big balanced and 2NT is takeout. Whichever way you play it, it is probably best to put the hands that qualify for both into X and make 2NT relatively pure.

[ahydra]

X = bal no stop, 2NT = bal with stop?

 

ahydra

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Here is the hand that caused all of the commotion :

 

[hv=pc=n&s=skqj5hdakj9ckqj85&w=st8762hak9763d5c9&n=sa943h4dq8764c762&e=shqjt852dt32cat43&d=e&v=e&b=6&a=p2c2hppdppp]399|300[/hv]

 

Result: 2HX made 12 tricks for 1470 .. IMP scoring

[PhilKing]

East was trying to field imo - he though his partner had psyched with spades. But there is no punishment for abetting a crime that never took place.

 

South got what he deserved for opening 2♣ with a three suiter, and NS for not knowing what they were doing.

[WellSpyder]

Result: 2HX made 12 tricks for 1470 .. IMP scoring

Hopefully not too big a swing out when teammates bring in 6♥= at the other table :)

[barmar]

Hopefully not too big a swing out when teammates bring in 6♥= at the other table :)

If they bid 6♥, they'll either be playing it doubled (so you'll gain a swing when it makes) or NS will find the 6♠ sacrifice (probably doesn't matter whether it's doubled).

[yunling]

I treat it as takeout, but 99% of the time it shows a balanced hand without a stopper, so p is able to pass with 4. A void is not acceptable and I'll just bid 3C.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

( p ) - 2C - ( 2H ) - p!

( p ) - DBL = ?

 

Responder's pass! was positive but with no good 5+ card suit ( DBL would have been "bust" ).

 

Sooo, what should Opener's DBL mean here ? Penalty or T/O ?

This question was circulated elsewhere .

 

One knowledgeable reply was in the form of a question:

 

How often do you have a trump stack in front of the bidder and KNOW that you want to penalize them versus the I-got-a-giant-hand-and-don't-know-what-to-do?.

 

His answer was T/O .

[EricK]

This question was circulated elsewhere .

 

One knowledgeable reply was in the form of a question:

 

How often do you have a trump stack in front of the bidder and KNOW that you want to penalize them versus the I-got-a-giant-hand-and-don't-know-what-to-do?.

 

His answer was T/O .

But with a giant balanced hand, do you want your partner, probably also with a balanced hand, to bid? So probably the double is best not described as take out or penalty. You are not asking your partner to pass unless he is very distributional (which would describe a penalty double); but you are also not asking him to bid unless he has a trump stack (which would describe a take out double). You are asking him to do something sensible on the understanding that you have a very strong hand, and no good suit of your own to bid - which will often be to pass, I'd have thought.

[MrAce]

If this was an ATB topic, i would blame East :P

[PhilKing]

This question was circulated elsewhere .

 

One knowledgeable reply was in the form of a question:

 

How often do you have a trump stack in front of the bidder and KNOW that you want to penalize them versus the I-got-a-giant-hand-and-don't-know-what-to-do?.

 

His answer was T/O .

 

With, of all things, a giant hand, I am going to know what to do.

 

If I am balanced, I double (penalties - I could even have a GF heart one suiter against plenty of opponents) or bid 2NT (strong balanced but not penalties). If not, I am going to go try something novel such as bidding my longest suit, or bid 3♥ with a 4054 24 count, which has never happened in the entire history of bridge.

[PhilKing]

Well, not for over five years:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sk654hajt8753d7c6&w=sq87hkq64dt2c7542&n=s92h92dq86543ct83&e=sajt3hdakj9cakqj9&d=e&v=n&b=2&a=2c2hdppp]399|300[/hv]

 

This auction occurred in both rooms during the 2007 Bermuda Bowl. One off with 6♣ making.

 

It seems nuts to open 2♣ and defend 2♥, but whatever.

[Finch]

I play 2c 2h p p 3h as natural

and 2C 2h p p dbl as strong balanced

next time I have a 4045 I"ll just have to bid a suit

[1eyedjack]

I am not keen on the distinction between pass and double being purely on values and entirely non-committal as to shape. All this hand does is reinforce my reservations.

[Zelandakh]

I play 2c 2h p p 3h as natural

and 2C 2h p p dbl as strong balanced

How do you play 2♣ - 2♥ - P - (P); 2NT, Frances?

[PhilKing]

I play them both as strong balanced within a 2♣ 100% GF context. 2NT is simply more definitive.

[gnasher]

East was trying to field imo - he though his partner had psyched with spades. But there is no punishment for abetting a crime that never took place.

If East passed because partnership experience told him to expect a psych, EW had a concealed partnership understanding. That's certainly punishable.