billw55 Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 [hv=pc=n&s=sqj9hkq85dkt84c63&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=1cp3c(inverted)]133|200[/hv] Matchpoints, none vul. Well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Well it's a guess, has partner got Axxx, xxx, Qxx, Qxx or K10xx, Axxx, Qx, xxx ? I think the gamble is odds against because you run the risk that W has a say 4432 or 3433 depending on system 19 count and partner has a flat pile. I think it's bad but not completely terrible, there is a possible upside but I'd say it's 30-70 against most opps but worse against strong opps with a hair trigger on the doubles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Partner could not act over 1♣, so he is limited. It could work, or you could be walking into a buzzsaw. Just remember to ask yourself, are you feeling lucky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 I would not do it or even seriously consider it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Even when it's right to double, it doesn't work, since the ox may assume we have our bid. :angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 Even when it's right to double, it doesn't work, since the ox may assume we have our bid. :angry:This is true, but having your bid is no more than a 4441 13 count so partner won't go overboard with 9, as he won't have a 5 card suit or he'd have overcalled it already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycroft Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 How big is "inverted"? 6-9, or 0-6, or what? Having said that, partner likely is xxx2; so the arguments that he couldn't overcall 1♣ make sense. The rare cases where he's xxx3, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 If you agree to play OBAR* bids, this double is not that bad. I would prefer one less club and one more spade, but sometimes you have to bid the hand you hold. Having said that, I believe even playing OBAR I would pass this hand. Not having an agreement to play OBAR bids, this is no where near a double. *OBAR - Opponents Bid And Raise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 how bad is double?Appallingly bad - even a beginner would not do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 Having associated double with this hand for a fraction of a second, I lost my appetite and will to live. I feel I cannot adequately describe my feelings about this x yet, I will need to think of some sort of diagram or poem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 How about this gwnn? The opps they did bid up to 3And on double I thought "Deary me!This hand is all defenceAnd it makes really no senseIf I want next game partner to see." 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 In general, this sort of light double works well when it allows us to find a contract at the two level, or push them up to the three level. Where they have already pushed themselves up to the three level, we generally oughtn't compete unless we have some reasonable hope of making something at the three level. So we need to be strong enough for there to be some play if partner has a 5 card suit and a hand too weak to overcall, or a 4 card suit in a hand unsuitable to overcall. Neither seems to be the case here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted April 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 I had a feeling it was pretty bad. This happened near the end of an already lousy session. We were both pretty much on tilt. I gave it a shot, partner went -800 in 3♥x. Sometimes justice is served even on forum hands :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamford Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 How about this gwnn? The opps they did bid up to 3And on double I thought "Deary me!This hand is all defenceAnd it makes really no senseIf I want next game partner to see."Double here is really badThis hand will make my partner sadMy partner couldn't bid beforeAnd acting now he will deplore 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 How big is "inverted"? 6-9, or 0-6, or what? In my experience many non expert pairs often aren't sure and will get into problems if opener has a big hand. Sometimes opener will try for game or miss game and be wrong. This is another reason why doubling here is very wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 Double here is really badThis hand will make my partner sadMy partner couldn't bid beforeAnd acting now he will deploreWhen your chin has grown some stubbleand you've risen past a subaul-tern, no longer then a cherub you'llhave learned when not to double Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted April 20, 2013 Report Share Posted April 20, 2013 I would always X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted April 20, 2013 Report Share Posted April 20, 2013 Even when it's right to double, it doesn't work, since the ox may assume we have our bid. :angry: Alright down 2 vs their cold partscore is still better. Don't act like anyone would X phil MFing king or hihs partner and even if they did you'd make an extra trick BROSKI. Andif partner wants to bid game tell him to learn how to overcall at the 1 level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted April 20, 2013 Report Share Posted April 20, 2013 Alright down 2 vs their cold partscore is still better. Don't act like anyone would X phil MFing king or hihs partner and even if they did you'd make an extra trick BROSKI. Andif partner wants to bid game tell him to learn how to overcall at the 1 level They never double me because I have convinced everyone I am a rock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted April 20, 2013 Report Share Posted April 20, 2013 Reading between the lines, your earlier replies were solely for metagame purposes. KING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted April 20, 2013 Report Share Posted April 20, 2013 hate double. it's presumptuous to hit the panic button and risk an action when they will often only have 8 clubs in which case we'll be fine defending or they might also have done themselves out of a higher scoring NT contract. partner knows as well as we do that it's right to bid aggressively at these colours/scoring, so he could have overcalled a reasonable 4 card suit or made an off-shape take out double. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 You make a bad bid and get to a badly breaking contract you get doubled, I don't care if you are Garozzo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 Partner has a bag of spanners (he passed over 1♣), righty has a bag of spanners (he bid 3♣), I have a bag of spanners (I know that because I am looking at it). But they have a big fit, right? Not necessarily. I am going to go out on a limb and suggest there is a very high likelihood that lefty is 18-19 balanced. All the signs point to it. On a bad day, he is 4432 and righty is 2245. And don't tell me people don't bid 3♣ on that - maybe they shouldn't but in practice they often do. On a good day, lefty has a max weak no trump and we escape for one off against their one off. I don't think there is much chance at all that lefty has a natural club given the action so far. When he does, he is strong given partner passed with a stiff or void club, so our double is the equivalent of breaking wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted April 21, 2013 Report Share Posted April 21, 2013 Poty for gratuitous use of the phrase "bag of spanners" and comparison of dbl and breaking wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 I have to admit that the last time I saw this auction RHO had a semi-balanced hand with 5 clubs and LHO had 4=4=3=2. Club game so not much point in mentioning the lack of alert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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