so what is the bid?

[onoway]

[hv=pc=n&s=s4hqjt652dakj52c2&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=p1c]133|200[/hv] so what is the bid for south and why? This hand came up for discussion among the kibs tonight with a difference of opinion.

[mike777]

i can live with 2nt or 1h

 

i pick 1h but ok./

[aguahombre]

1H is my choice. 2NT not quite right with the sixth heart

[CamHenry]

I play split-range 2NT (I think most people do?) and even with the sixth heart I'm not *quite* upgrading this to a strong hand. 1♥ for me, but I'm rebidding ♦ at any level.

[eagles123]

1♥ for me 6/5 shape and the intermediate strength both wrong for 2NT

[the hog]

2NT unless I am playing RJO. Best to show the shape before the opps come in with Spades. Lets get the bidding up there quickly, especially as partner is a passed hand. By the way, my second choice, and perhaps even a better bid than 2NT is 4H.

[CamHenry]

2NT unless I am playing RJO. Best to show the shape before the opps come in with Spades. Lets get the bidding up there quickly, especially as partner is a passed hand. By the way, my second choice, and perhaps even a better bid than 2NT is 4H.

 

4♥ seems unilateral: what if partner has KQx/xxxx/xx/KQxx? Starting at 1♥ gives us a chance to stay out of the cold-off game, or partner to double them if they get too high. There's plenty of other passed hands that have similar effects; we need aces and heart honours as offensive values, and by bidding 4♥ you're gambling on those instead of some soft values and a misfit.

[P_Marlowe]

Show the 2-suiter

 

As high as possible, 2NT, if possible 3NT.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Codo]

With splitrange 2 NT I would always bid 1 ♥.

WIthout the ability to show 6/5 later, I would bid 1 ♥ too.

 

Luckily I can often show 6/5 later, so I go with 2 NT.

[Zelandakh]

One of the keys to playing split-range is to know when to ignore it and show both suits tactically. Here the benefits from showing a better hand are less than normal since partner is a passed hand. At the same time, you can see that there is a high risk that the bidding will come back at 4♠ and bidding 5♦ over this a Game All is effectively taking the last guess. From this, I think that 1♥ can be rejected even when it is ostensibly the systemic call. That seems to leave us with either 2NT or some jump in hearts, unless we have managed to agree a higher overcall as showing an extreme red suiter.

 

2NT is probably the safe, down-the middle call. You get both suits in immediately. If you are lucky, you might get to show the 6th heart later and if partner takes the dive over 4♠ you are more than happy. But it is no guarantee of success. I have had a fair amount of success with starting hands like this 2♥ and then bidding diamonds the next time round, in a sort of two-suited version of walking the dog. That said, here the risks of that strategy are probably too great. 3♥ on the other hand strikes me, as they say round here, as "weder Fisch noch Fleisch" - that is, neither one thing nor the other. We are not applying maximum pressure nor giving us a realistic chance of showing the second suit. Yes, it could work well on any given hand, but it seems like the weakest variation. On the other hand 4♥ has a great deal going for it. Our heart suit is as offensive as they come and we need very little from partner to have play. Better, if partner has a badly fitting hand like Henry's construction, there is a high chance that they will take out insirance in a black suit anyway.

 

Overall, I agree with the hog, this seems to be between 2NT and 4♥. My first instinct was 2NT but the more I look at it the more inclined I am to take the "unilateral" route. My main worry is that partner might take a phantom in 5/6♥ but at least this way we are likely to be giving them the last guess.

[kenberg]

I would go with 1♥. It's possible, but by no means certain, that the bidding will be at 4♠ when it gets back to me. I'll bid 5♦ if that happens. Right now, however, I am not very sure of who this hand belongs to. Partner could have five spades in his hand for all I know. Maybe I will be able to get a 4♦ bid in next time and who knows, it might buy the contract. Or it might not, but it brings partner into the war room. My guess is that some four level contracts make in perhaps either direction, and probably five level contracts do not.

 

Bottom line, I'm not so interested in pre-emption here. There may be some delicate constructive issues of how high to go and I think starting with 1♥ is more apt to help us get it right.

[MrAce]

4♥

 

 

4♥ seems unilateral: what if partner has KQx/xxxx/xx/KQxx? Starting at 1♥ gives us a chance to stay out of the cold-off game,

 

In which planet are you planning to stay out of game if pd holds this ? I hope you are not suggesting that pd with this 10 hcp and 4 card fit, coming from pass, should not cue. And who on earth will stop b4 game with our hand if pd cues ?

 

I am not strong about 4♥ bid that i would choose. 1♥ or 2NT are also legit bids. I just disagree with your example.

[the hog]

The more I think about it, the more I think 4H is much better than 2NT. Seriously though, the 1H bidders make me laugh.

[aguahombre]

The more I think about it, the more I think 4H is much better than 2NT. Seriously though, the 1H bidders make me laugh.

Glad to brighten your day. It is my soul purpose in life to make you happy.

[ggwhiz]

the 1H bidders make me laugh.

 

I've had a lot of fun bidding 1♥ on something like this, catching a raise and competing gently over their black suit(s) until whacked. I can still walk the dog without a raise most often and that's what makes ME laugh.

 

We don't know who's hand it is yet (very true) but a guy, Mike Lawrence says that you should trot out your 2-suiters including Michaels at every opportunity. Since he's pretty good I have no problem with any pard that chooses any option mentioned in this thread.

 

I'm not fond of 4♥ though. Pards decision (or mine) over an eventual 4♠ bid sucks when I have no winners in my bid suit opposite shortness and diamond defence out of left field.

[lalldonn]

1H. I hate bidding 4 with a six card suit. Suppose partner has a singleton and they start tapping you right away. Good luck! 2NT might be ok but I think you are going to miss hearts too much.

[Phil]

1H. I hate bidding 4 with a six card suit. Suppose partner has a singleton and they start tapping you right away. Good luck! 2NT might be ok but I think you are going to miss hearts too much.

 

Except "The Tap" isn't the usual defense against a red four level preempt. This is coming from someone that used to play with a partner that lived to preempt with two suiters.

 

I saw this hand yesterday and I don't have strong feelings between 4♥, 2N and 1♥. Not sure I've changed my tune; it probably depends on whom I'm playing with.

[Free]

2NT for me, planning to correct 3♦ to 3♥ showing extras and a 6th ♥.

[aguahombre]

2NT for me, planning to correct 3♦ to 3♥ showing extras and a 6th ♥.

Unfortunately one of the three opponents won't let that happen very often. Also, "extras" for us would be a mountain in comparison with the given hand at red.

[gszes]

opposite a passed partner----our chances of slam diminish to

virtually non existent. This may be our only chance to get the

offensive nature of our hand across to partner before the bidding

gets too high. 2N vul gives an extremely good description of our

hand (no it is not perfect) to our partner which will allow them to

rightly cherish red suit honors for offense and downgrade black suit

(non ace) ones. a 2n bid will get us to generally the right place while

choosing a 1h bid will generally force us to the 4/5 level in order to

maybe get to a perfect spot and many times we will be making a

unilateral decision to bid em up w/o input from partner. I would not

convert P's 3d bid to 3h. I do not think this hand is good enough to

foce to game and would not use 3n to show this hand even if 2n

was not available.

[the hog]

1H. I hate bidding 4 with a six card suit. Suppose partner has a singleton and they start tapping you right away. Good luck! 2NT might be ok but I think you are going to miss hearts too much.

 

Good luck! I think they might find some number of spades before anything else happens. A 1h bid is playing with yourself - not even two handed, but one handed Bridge. The last time I looked there were three other players at the table. If you are considering bidding 5D over 4S, that is truly taking the last guess on the hand as well.

By the way, I think the "walking the dog" comment above by ggwhiz is even funnier. You must play against pretty poor opposition.

[kenberg]

I do not see this being as clear cut as the hog and some others do. It is true that if I bid 1♥ the auction might quickly get to 4♠ their way. This could also happen if I bid 2NT. LHO presumably has a way to show a strong hand with clubs and a weak hand with clubs, as well as a strong hand with spades and a weak hand with spades. Now do I know whether I should bid again? Does my partner? I think, agreeing with the hog, that I prefer 4♥ to 2NT. But it's a shot in the dark, really. 4♥ may be a stupid contract to start with, or a great contract, and if they go on neither I nor my partner will have any idea what we are supposed to do. Maybe they are sacrificing against out makeable 4♥. Or maybe we are supposed to sac in 5♦ Or maybe 4♦ was the last makeable contract by either side. Who knows.

 

 

I known spades are far and wide know as the boss suit, but it doesn't always work out that way. This might be our hand, it might be their hand, I dunno. I just start with 1♥. I have been wrong before.

[billw55]

Why is everyone so sure ops own the spades? When I hold hands like this, partner has them as often as not.

[kenberg]

And so, to slightly vary the OP question: What was the bid?

 

And, right, Bill, that's my thinking also about spades. They may or may not have a big fit. If they do, I don't think that 2NT will stop them from finding it. 4♥ might interfere enough, but

a. They may find it anyway

b. They may not have it.

 

If, over 1♥, there is a negative double, and if then rho bids spades, then I can be reasonably sure that they have an 8, not a 7 or a 9, card fit. They may or may not have the values for 4♠. Partner will have had a chance to express himself over the X.

[ggwhiz]

A 1h bid is playing with yourself - not even two handed, but one handed Bridge. By the way, I think the "walking the dog" comment above by ggwhiz is even funnier. You must play against pretty poor opposition.

 

I agree with more of your posts than not, but not this one.

 

imo 4♥ is playing with yourself for Kens reasons plus the fact that it may lead to a minus score when pard might tee them up in 4♠ and you are hiding significant defence in diamonds. I just think you are removing a bunch of pards constructive bidding options with 4♥ and making them a spectator (that's my definition of unilateral).

 

If pard does have them modestly wired if they bid to 4♠ over 4♥ how can they tell? Or if we should be diving or negotiating a lower contract on a misfit I want partners input.

 

As for "walking the dog" I admit to playing in the occasional stratified pairs known as Baby Seals or "Club" games up here. Works against good players that think you are a bum too and I've got plenty of them (plus 1?).