Market research

[fred]

There are 2 new products that we are thinking of starting to sell, but I have no idea if our members would have any interest in buying these products. Please let me know your thoughts. Don't worry - if you say "Yes, I would buy that!", you are not committing to anything and you will not receive any e-mail, BBO mail, or Forums mail, on this subject.

 

Also, please don't be afraid to post something like: "Those sound like really stupid products and I would never spend money on them." We need honest opinions so that we can make intelligent decisions about development (in the case of Product 2 described below) and inventory (in the case of Product 1 described below).

 

Product 1:

 

This is 6 hour DVD based on the programs that recently aired on the Sky TV Network in the UK (not to be confused with SKYCLUB on BBO).

 

Here is a brief marketing blurb sent to me by the producers:

 

The programmes covered the drama of the knock-out stages and included interviews (including yours), analysis by the players themselves, predictions and panel discussions, as well as featuring critical boards in the main matches. They were presented by Zia Mahmood and Sabine Auken, with commentary on the play by David Burn.

 

The price would be in the $25-$30 range and we would charge an additional $5 for first class air mail shipping to anywhere in the world.

 

Product 2:

 

Some of you may be familiar with "The Deal of the Week" - a weekly online bridge column that I wrote for about 8 years that has now been discontinued.

 

There were something like 393 Deals of the Week, but the first 155 of these are presented using an old version of our software that could only reside on web pages. The more recent Deals of the Week are available in "bridge movie" (.lin file) format.

 

The recent Deals of the Week will remain available for free both through our web site and through Explore Bridge!, Bridge Library, English area of BBO. The older Deals of the Week are available only in the old format (for free) through:

 

www.bridgebase.com/dotw

 

(look at those that are from August 1999 or earlier to see the old format).

 

Would you be willing to pay for a collection of the first 155 Deals of the Week if they were converted to our new format? Most likely we would sell such a collection as a download through the Shop Bridge! area of BBO (as opposed to on a CD-ROM that we would ship to you).

 

If yes, how much would you be willing to pay for such a product?

 

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to offer feedback.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[pclayton]

#1 - Hard to evaluate how interesting a taped telacast of bridge would be. This is something that our generation hasn't been exposed to. Maybe put a 2 minute sample on the web site so we could judge for ourselves. My guess is such a product WOULD appeal to the bridge general public, since they could watch at it their leisure, and unlike the BBO VG, they could listen to the comments instead of read them. What tournaments were telecasted? Or were they just exhibition matches?

 

#2 - This is a toughie too. I watched the DOTW religiously for 4-5 years so while the material is wonderful, I've seen all the deals before. Most of the material in DOTW seems to be esoteric, so that limits your audience as well.

 

OTOH, material that I really enjoy (and have paid for) are Larry Cohen's LM Pairs CD's. I know there's a lot of programming involved, but the format is great. Seems more of these could be developed; or perhaps the Bridge World's "Swiss Match" series could be digitized. Oh, and if the software could keep a running total of the decisions the user makes and generates an score at the end of the session, thats awesome too. Jeff Goldsmith has this on a few of his bridge movies on his webiste. Just a few ideas.

 

Happy New Year and keep up the good work. <_<

[fred]

Thanks for your feedback Paul.

 

I am glad you like the Larry Cohen CDs - I do too.

 

Do you think that the $20 we charge for these CDs (each of which consist of about 50 hands) is a reasonable price?

 

Is there a price at which you would be willing to pay for the first 155 Deals of the Week in the nice new format even though you have read them before? Say $10?

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[luis]

#1: Yes of course :-) A friend of mine has tapes of one of his visits to Europe and threatens guests to see the tape, I need something to counter-attack and a DVD of bridge would be ideal.

 

#2: I don't know.

[nickf]

I'd like to offer an opinion as a retailer of bridge products.

 

A few years ago a French company produced an outstanding video of the Bermuda Bowl held in Bermuda. Lots of interesting interviews and some good shots of the players at the table. In my market (Australia) sales were a complete dud and I ended offloading excess stock at a loss.

 

It could have been poor marketing on my part but I'd rather think it was a lack of the interest from a consumer. Here in Australia your average Joe is just not interested in international bridge or even how their national team fares.

 

As far as I'm concerned the best books that are published each year are the World Championship books but I'm lucky to sell 40-50 annually.

 

Product 2)

A much more attractive product but stilll a small target market. The market for instructional software is much smaller than play software by a factor of probably 50-1 in terms of unit sales. Typically bridge players who want software want to play a dozen or so hands after dinner on games such as Bridge Baron without being reminded of their deficiencies.

 

If the hands were annotated and interactive like Bridge Master, I'd have a much better chance of selling it.

 

nickf

sydney

[flytoox]

I think the second product, if you can organzised it in such a way that it is more like a systematic book on some interesting and important topic in declarer play or defense, rather than a simple collection of nice deals, will have some selling point.

 

By the way, if you can sell books containing same contents as ur CDs, I will be more willing to buy them.

 

Happy new year

[luke warm]

i agree with fly, the dotw was fabulous (and like phil i *always* viewed it) and i'd certainly pay for it if the deals were arranged in subject matter order... the first product sounds great, but like nick said the market might make your expenses/volume ratio too high

 

what do you think the demand would be for system books in cd format? for example, cohen/berk precision or fantoni/nunes, etc?... i know lawrence put out a 2/1 cd (which i have), so you'd have to see how that one did... unlike fly i prefer the computer product to the book, tho books are easier (unless elec models have better 'bookmark' features)...

[fred]

Nickf is far too polite a guy to include a link to his company's web site in forums, but I am happy to do this:

 

http://www.bridgeshop.com.au/

 

We have been doing business with The Bridge Shop (in Australia) for several years. They are good people who treat their customers well.

 

Thanks to those of you who have been responding. Lots of helpful comments already.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[pclayton]

Hi Fred: $20 is a fair price point for Cohen's CD's; even as a bulk price. I think when they came out orginally they were more like $35-40.

 

As far as the DOTW's, I don't know. I occasionally peruse the old DOTW's, and I don't like the old ones nearly as much as the ones that came out the final two years. Maybe you can pick the 'greatest hits' and publish them; that would be more appealing.

 

And as far as a format is concerned, have you considered setting them up like Larry Cohen's? I know that many are (especially the more recent) and they are a lot more interesting to navigate then the dotw's that read like a newpaper column.

 

I'd pay for this.

[ArcLight]

>Product 1:

 

Could be interesting, but I can't make a decision without knowing more about it. Rather than a 2 minute excerpt, a 10 minute excerpt would help me decide.

 

What does this format offer over a book? I like books because I can read them on the train, with this I'd have to watch at home.

 

The price is ok for me, its the contents that I need to know more about.

 

 

>Product 2:

 

I have all the Mike Lawrence software (7 CDs, all unbelievably good), the 3 Larry Cohen 1999 LMP disks, the 2 Kit Woolsey Cavendish disks. I love them all.

 

I'm not quite as interested in esoteric hands that I'll never solve at the table. I'm more interested in "common types of hands" that many people mess up.

 

Thats what I like about some of the deals in Bridge Master. It teaches you not to make certain mistakes.

 

 

One word of advice - I see Bridge software that is misdirected. It doesnt capitalize on the strength of software over a book.

 

Books are easier to read from than a computer screen. I would much rather read text from a book than a computer screen. I would much rather have a book I can look back 5 pages in, than have to scroll back X screens, not knowing exactly where I want to go.

 

Thats the problem with Mike Lawrences CONVENTIONS software. The content is great, but its a pain to scroll back and forth 27 screens to hop around. (Note: CONVENTIONS is a fantastic product, and I highly reccomend it, but at times I wish it was in book form, but it would be enormous)

 

Software has one huge advantage over books, its interactive, you can present a hand sequentially as it unfolds and visually update the screen, forcing the reader to pay attention. I have a hard time with some books that describe a sequence of card plays, I find it much harder to follow. Bridge Master has an enormous advantage over any book trying to teach specific hands, especially in teaching squeezes.

 

Eddie Kantars MODERN & ADVANCED BRIDGE DEFENSE are good books. But I dislike the software versions. The content is mostly lecture, and quizes, not much interaction. All of this is very well handled in book format, and less enjoyable reading off a CRT.

 

On the otherhand, the Mike Lawrence software (such as the just released Counting at Bridge vol 2), is highly interactive. After every card of two, Mike asks you questions. He really keeps your head in the game.

 

I'd like to see interactive software, not lecture software. For lectures, I'd rather read a book, or print some files and read them on paper.

 

 

I wish Mike Lawrence would put out a couple of CDs a year of lessons.

[Guest Jlall]

product 1: YES!!! I love this idea, i love the thrill of competing and also how many top players can think differently of situations and bids/plays and they can all have good points. These are 2 of my favorite things about bridge, and being able to watch others compete and the drama of their matches especially the close ones followed by analysis by such charasmatic and great players would be well worth the money and quite enjoyable. I am very enthusiastic about this product.

 

product 2: No, I wouldn't pay for this when I could essentially get it for free (the bridge is what interests me, not the format).

[Laird]

Hi Fred

 

Product1... I didnt see the Sky program when it was aired, but a few club members did and there was no great sign of interest,,, the general impression I got was that the program was interesting enough but there was little regarding bridge play.

Personally I enjoyed seeing some of the BBO people in your photos from Instanbul, that satisfied my curiosity regarding bridge personalities.

 

Product2 .. hate to say this but I have never seen deal of the week, old or new, I must try to make that a new year resolution. Its probably why I keep repeating the same old mistakes, but with all the interactive stuff available there isnt enought time in a day,sorry.

 

What I would like is a book form of your play bridge program for SA ... its such an excellent program but I like an easy look up reference... maybe A4 size and good size printing and colourful. Also what about a similar program for 2/1 .... just the natural Scot in me coming thro' again....

 

Some kind of reference booklet on Ben's Squeeze play, again something easily digested and that you can look up from time to time would be useful I think.

 

Wishing you and all at BBO the very best for 2005

 

Laird

[sceptic]

I misssed the sky progrmmes as I dont have access to those channels, I may buy the product not sure, but it would be nice to have the option.

 

Deal of the week why not make them into something like the bridgemaster refills, you can buy 10-20 or higher multiples and use BBO $s to purchase them, I used to look forward to the email attachment you sent out it was fun to do and helped me a lot

 

also I wish you would tie up with amazon or someone and then you can get a cut of the books I buy

[nikos59]

First of all, happy new year!

 

Then,

on #1: certainly not -I wouldn't even think of buying it.

 

on #2: i am not sure; I like better the recent DotWs but

in any case I prefer books to software.

 

Nikos

[hrothgar]

Hi Fred

 

With respect to the video: I think that Arc Light raises some good points. Its very difficult for me to make an accurate decision without having a better idea about the content. Ideally, it would be very useful if you could provide some kind of sample that people could use to make an more informed decision. With this said and done, AV feeds suck up a lot of bandwidth. Unless you think that you have something stellar, its unclear whether this would be worth the expense.

 

Mark me down as curious, but unlikely to pay much for a video.

 

With respect to the Deals of the Week. My gut tells me that there is more of a market for this type of content. From my perspective, you might want to consider trying to leverage these deals in a completely new market. For example, consider the possibily of translating the DoWs into a foreign language. The main goal would be marketing the content to bridge players with limited skills in English. From my perspective, Italian would probably be the best choice (you already have ready partners in BBO Italia, and the Italians have more disposable income than (say) the Poles or the Turks) French and maybe Japanese might be other reasonable choices...

 

Another possibility might be trying to create an Electronic Bridge Calender...

I always loved my dear old Bridge Calender. Its interesting to consider creating an electronic version there off. In an ideal world, it might be possible to create a plug-in to the Calender functionality into a third party program...

[DenisO]

#1 - this is the recording of the recent World Championships in Istanbul. I've watched two of the Sky progs and recorded the others to tape for viewing soon in the New Year. Excellent programmes bringing to life the atmosphere of the tourney and also the thought processes of the players. I really enjoyed Bocchi in prog 1 taking us through his analysis of his own declarer play. David Burn's analysis and Zia's presentations are well worth seeing. Even though I have the tape I'd still be interested in a DVD at the right price - I think more would sell at $20 than $30.

 

#2 - I'd buy at $10

 

Denis

[Free]

I probably won't buy any of these products. They interest me, but just not enough to spend some money on them.

[Finch]

I have seen 5/6 of the Sky programmes (the last has been recorded but we haven't watched it yet). While they were OK to do the ironing to, generally I wouldn't pay money to watch them. About 5-10% interesting content, the rest, to my mind, a bit dull - it didn't appear that the hands had been that carefully picked for interest. I found watching on BBO vugraph far more interesting - but I'm generally more attracted by bridge and less by the "personalities" part of it. And the music is INTENSELY IRRITATING.

 

Also, I hope I'm not insulting too many people if I suggest that the fact that the USA did badly might reduce the enthusiasm to buy from your American market. Perhaps a version with Italian commentary would prove popular!

 

I might be interested in paying for a tidied-up/edited vugraph archive from a big match (something like the Spingold final - not covered by the World Championship books). Take out the commentators' backchat & flip comments and leave in the serious analysis and decent jokes. Whether I'd be prepared to pay enough to make it worthwhile doing the editing, I don't know.

 

I would pay to watch something big on vugraph, if the top players were playing and the nearly top players were commentating, and it timed well for me. However I'd be a bit picky as to which commentators I'd pay to "listen" to, and my choices may not be the same as other people's, so that might not work. And I believe you want to keep the vu-graph free.

 

I wouldn't pay for the deal-of-the-weeks. While they are often interesting there are sufficient free current bridge columns available that I don't need to pay for more.

[helene_t]

Product #1 sounds interesting, I would buy it if I owned a DVD-player.

 

Product #2 I might consider buying for educational purposes if I get a group of students for which it is suitable, but I would not pay too much for it for my personal use.

[Hummer_]

I'd buy the DVD, item 1, as soon as it's offered.

 

Mike

[beatrix45]

Since the incremental cost of "production" is just postage and producing a DVD (by the way, why not deliver the thing over the internet or by e-mail), I would suggest starting out with a period of high publicity and a very low purchase price (maybe $2 to 5 - even free for a trial period - along with some advertising) to try to develop a market. Get your vendor to supply you for next to nothing for a while on the condition that you will chip in $X worth of publicity and promotion. You will never get the kind of exposure and word of mouth you need by starting out at anything close to $30.

 

If the bridge playing public tries the product and likes it, then you can ease the price upward - the ultimate level should be unimportant to you because your vendor needs to bear that risk. It looks to me like you have the upper hand over your English vendor right at the moment. He/she has a product, but no way to reach its public. If he/she needs an ultimate selling price of $X to be successful, let him/her worry about it. You already have by far the best commercial pipeline into the world bridgeplayer market.

 

Trixie

[helene_t]

I disagree, I think BBO has offered enough free stuff allready and now it's time to make some money. After all, this is an American site, isn't it?

[fred]

We have been selling bridge software for close to 15 years now, but most of our pricing policies have been what I would call "making things up as we go along". From Trixie's post, it sounds like she has some real knowledge and experience in this area. Thanks - lots of food for thought in your post.

 

Unfortunately I don't think the ideas you present will work with the DVD product. The reason is that we are not the publisher - we have to buy DVDs from the actual publisher in the UK. They are the ones that set the "suggested retail price" and the discount schedule (which depends upon the volume of DVDs that we purchase). Even if we buy enough DVDs to get the maximum discount (50% of the suggested retail price) we will still be paying $13 or so per unit. As such, making the price of the DVD (at least this DVD) very low in an attempt to sell a lot of volume is not going to work.

 

For years I have been thinking about the concept of selling bridge CDs at a price level that is much lower than the $30 to $60 range that our current line of products retail for. If we could sell 20 times as many $3 CDs than we could sell $30 CDs, it would obviously be good for us. I am not sure if we will ever try this or not since I suspect that the day of the CD is coming to an end - it won't be long before most software is sold by download instead (and this will naturally drive prices down since our distribution and production costs become close to zero). In fact, this concept was the original inspiration of the BBO program - my original plan was to write a "Shop Bridge!" area program, not an online bridge game.

 

In any case, BBO has evolved in something much bigger than I ever expected in the early days and selling software (and other products) to our huge "captive audience" probably has a lot of potential to generate revenue (provided that we are smart about things like pricing and marketing).

 

Of course it remains important to us that our customers feel that they are getting good value for their money when they buy products from us, but it is hard for us to know what our customers want unless they tell us. This "survey" has been very helpful in that regard. Thanks to everyone who has offered their thoughts on these matters.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[Deanrover]

i) No - it just does not interest me, sorry.

 

ii) I would be willing to pay a small price for such a product. However, there are some things you could do that would make such a product much more attractive, namely

 

i) Most of the problems are declarer play based. If you could introduce a Bridge Masteresque element, this would make me MUCH more likely to buy the product

 

ii) IMHO you should add a modest number of new deals. This would make things much more interesting.

 

Best wishes,

 

Dean

[Deanrover]

If we could sell 20 times as many $3 CDs than we could sell $30 CDs, it would obviously be good for us.

This is wrong. You have to take costs into consideration. E.g. if each CD costs you $2, then you need to sell 28* as many for $3 as for $30 just to break even.