the butler brings 4 spades and 5 diamonds

[kgr]

IMPs at clubevening.

LHO is good, RHO not (client and sponsor)

I'm not sure about vulnerability, so comment if it makes a difference.

We play kind of SA, 2♦ forcing, but not GF.

[hv=pc=n&s=sa5hTdqj864ca8642&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1hp2d(10+%20%5Bnot%202/1%21%5D)4s5dp(BIT)]133|200|IMPs [/hv]

RHO thought some time and then passed. What is your bid?

And what if RHO bids 5♠ or passes quickly?

 

Bonus question :) : What would 4NT iso 5♦ be?

[Vampyr]

RHO thought some time and then passed. What is your bid?

Pass.

 

And what if RHO bids 5♠

 

Double

 

or passes quickly?

 

Pass.

 

Bonus question :) : What would 4NT iso 5♦ be?

 

Two places to play. Possibly xxx or Hx in hearts.

EDIT: no, misread question.

[mikeh]

Pass

 

We have a lot of work to do to get to 12 tricks. x KQxxx AKxxx xx is the world's clearest 5♦ call, with superlative trumps, and yet we have essentially no play for slam.

 

I'm not suggesting that we pass because he has that hand...obviously he has a wide range of hand types, but the point is that he needs either a huge hand or specific holdings for slam to be viable, and one should rarely if ever play partner for magic cards.

 

The BIT suggests that partner is very short in spades, but that is not as helpful as one might think because it increases the chances that we have club problems instead of spade problems.

 

I'd also pass if there was no BIT.

 

 

As for the bonus, to me 4N would be keycard.

 

This is entirely different, imo, from say 1♥ [4♠] 4N where 4N is two places to play.

 

In our auction, we have each bid a suit. If partner has clubs and hearts, and wants to bid, he doesn't need 4N...he bids 5♣.

 

If he has diamonds and hearts, he bids 5♦.

 

One interesting and perhaps important issue is whether we are in a FP over 4♠. We would be, were we playing 2/1 but the OP is silent on the issue.

 

This may be important because, absent a fp, we might need opener to have a way of differentiating between competitive and slam-hopeful raises or rebids at the 5-level, and 4N might be useful in that regard. If in a fp, then one has pass and pull as showing a different hand than an immediate bid, and one can also use the meckwell inversion of double and pass.

 

In any event, my take on it is that I'd opt for keycard as the meaning in any event. You can't have everything, and when opener has a good hand with slam suitability he has to guess, and may go right: indeed, on many such hands, he can keycard and stay at 5♦ opposite a disappointing result (not here, obviously) or, if with long, good hearts, 5♥ (again, not here). Otoh, when all he needs to place the contract is keycard, the absence of keycard makes guessing extremely dangerous.

[Vampyr]

As for the bonus, to me 4N would be keycard.

 

This is entirely different, imo, from say 1♥ [4♠] 4N where 4N is two places to play.

 

In our auction, we have each bid a suit. If partner has clubs and hearts, and wants to bid, he doesn't need 4N...he bids 5♣.

 

Right -- I misread the question and thought we were bidding over a (impossible) 4♠ bid by RHO. Keycard sensible here. Six-ace KC?

[neilkaz]

I'd pass 5♦ as we really don't have much more than promised by 2♦.

[keylime]

Pass. Pard's nice enough to have diamond support.

[PhilKing]

If I pick up a sick read that righty is the kind of numpty who passes over 5♦ but will sac over 6♦, I'll go for it. Otherwise Pass.

[kgr]

As for the bonus, to me 4N would be keycard.

 

This is entirely different, imo, from say 1♥ [4♠] 4N where 4N is two places to play.

 

In our auction, we have each bid a suit. If partner has clubs and hearts, and wants to bid, he doesn't need 4N...he bids 5♣.

 

If he has diamonds and hearts, he bids 5♦.

 

One interesting and perhaps important issue is whether we are in a FP over 4♠. We would be, were we playing 2/1 but the OP is silent on the issue.

 

This may be important because, absent a fp, we might need opener to have a way of differentiating between competitive and slam-hopeful raises or rebids at the 5-level, and 4N might be useful in that regard. If in a fp, then one has pass and pull as showing a different hand than an immediate bid, and one can also use the meckwell inversion of double and pass.

 

In any event, my take on it is that I'd opt for keycard as the meaning in any event. You can't have everything, and when opener has a good hand with slam suitability he has to guess, and may go right: indeed, on many such hands, he can keycard and stay at 5♦ opposite a disappointing result (not here, obviously) or, if with long, good hearts, 5♥ (again, not here). Otoh, when all he needs to place the contract is keycard, the absence of keycard makes guessing extremely dangerous.

No fp for us.

My partner suggested to use 4NT as extras, 5D as just distribution.

[kgr]

If I pick up a sick read that righty is the kind of numpty who passes over 5♦ but will sac over 6♦, I'll go for it. Otherwise Pass.

Not sure that he really would, but he told that he would bid 6S if I would have bid 6D.

[rmnka447]

I'm a passer, too. There's just no way to know if partner has the right cards for slam. So, I'll just stay "fixed" by the opponents preempt and settle for game.

 

In any case, it'll be easier in the post mortem to explain missing a tough slam to bid than bidding an unmakeable one.

[kgr]

thanks for the answer. These were both hands:

[hv=pc=n&n=sxhqjxxxdakxxxxcx&s=sa5hTdqj864ca8642&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1hp2d(10+%20%5Bnot%202/1%21%5D)4s5dp(BIT)pp]233|200|IMPs [/hv]

Result: 5D+2 (I played small ♥ to me ten and RHO had AK).

If RHO would really bid 6S when I bid 6D then 5D is a better result. Opps could make 5S.

[wyman]

wtg partner for masterminding. jfc...

 

the result is meaningless since partner's hand is not in his range.

[the hog]

wtg partner for masterminding. jfc...

 

the result is meaningless since partner's hand is not in his range.

 

IF you are going to open this hand not using a 2 suited opening , then 1H is totally logical and certainly my preferred choice. After 4S what do you expect the opener to do? 5D is fine.

[the_dude]

I think North's decision is alot more discussion-worthy than South's. I can';t think of an argument for anything besides pass for South.

 

That being said, you missed a 21 point slam in an auction where the opponents preempted to 4S. I wouldn't feel too bad about it :P