strong limited club

[manudude03]

One of my partners is insisting I play the following:

 

1C- 16-19 HCP any shape

1D- 15HCP balanced or 11-15 unbalanced without a 5cM.

1H/S- 5+M 12-15

1NT- 12-14

2C- 8 playing tricks in any suit or 21-22 (or 28+) balanced.

2D- GF any suit or 23-27 balanced.

2H/S- weak

2NT- balanced 20-bad 21 count.

 

Over 1C:

1D- 0-5 any.

1H/S- 4+M, 6-8 HCP

1NT- 6-8 no 4cM.

2C- 9-10 HCP, any shape.

2D- 11+ any shape.

2H/S- 9+HCP, 6+M

2NT- 16+ balanced

3C/D- 9+ HCP, good 6 card minor.

 

All continuations natural, baron style rebids after 1C-2m.

 

1D opener is also 100% forcing, otherwise very natural continuations except that 1D-2C-2D shows clubs.

 

I'm not particularly convinced about the above, but just pushing it out there to see if there are any major problems I need to discuss tonight.

[Cyberyeti]

Get a new partner unless playing this purely for fun.

 

Be sure what your doubles show:

 

1♣(16-19 any)-(2♦)-? What are you supposed to do with some (42)34s of various strengths for example in either seat.

[Zelandakh]

I have played against a not dissimilar system a fair few times and found it very good - for us. The 1♦ opening was fun to mess with. That is the main thing you need to discuss - dealing with interference after 1♦. The basic effect is to get the worse end of several systems in many auctions. So you have the problems of a strong club, a nebulous diamond and Benji 2m openings without any corresponding advantages other than the 1M openings. If your opponents are timid then the basic system is not at all bad - but against good opps I reckon it is a loser, albeit perfectly playable.

[WGF_Flame]

i don't like this system.

if your partner like this kind of 1C maybe he will like chappi or comic club as its called today i think

[manudude03]

The very limited notes on handling interference is that double is negative by responder (6+ at 1-level, 8+ at 2-level) and takeout by opener. I'm a little put off by his reasoning for developing this system in the first place- he was afraid of 1m-float.... No idea what we're doing about interference over 1D.

[helene_t]

There are so many ways of avoiding 1m-float. Play Precision or Polish Club. Or play coded minor suit openings. Or play 4-card majors (playing WJS I would be less afraid of 1m-float in a 5cM system than of 1M-float in a 4cM system but you don't need to tell him that).

[straube]

I agree about getting a new partner. I particularly hate 1C-2D as 11+ any shape. I'm also not fond of putting hands with just club as well as hands with both minors or just diamonds in a 1D opening. I also think 1C should be able to handle 16+ and it would do so more easily if the continuations made sense.

[dake50]

This could be reasonable opposite a PASSED partner.

At least some responses/rebids make sense then

(without distorting everything else, I mean).

[MickyB]

Awful.

 

1C = 16+

1D = unbal no 5cM

1M = 5

1N = 12-15

 

would be better and leave the two-level for some fun

[gwnn]

How much is he paying you?

[helene_t]

You cannot play Baron when both (!) partners could have a five-card major (opener could even have more than five).

 

The distinction between the 2m responses to 1♣ is silly.

 

Just play all the 2-level responses as natural GF.

 

Why does

1♦-2♣

2♦

shows clubs? How to show diamonds?

[manudude03]

You cannot play Baron when both (!) partners could have a five-card major (opener could even have more than five).

 

The distinction between the 2m responses to 1♣ is silly.

 

Just play all the 2-level responses as natural GF.

 

Why does

1♦-2♣

2♦

shows clubs? How to show diamonds?

 

Everything apart from 2♦ shows a "genuine" diamond suit. The notes for the rebids after 1C-2m say opener jumps with a 6 card suit, and with a 5 card suit, bids it twice.

[helene_t]

hmm it sounds as if your p has given it some thoughts.

 

Make sure you have some idea about what is forcing and what isn't after the 1♦ opening.

[manudude03]

Well, he says he's been developing it for the last 12 years (or maybe 14) and played it at higher level events here. Having said that, it is the same person who insists on playing Fishbein and had no way to show diamonds after (3C)-3D-(P)

[Cyberyeti]

The very limited notes on handling interference is that double is negative by responder (6+ at 1-level, 8+ at 2-level) and takeout by opener. I'm a little put off by his reasoning for developing this system in the first place- he was afraid of 1m-float.... No idea what we're doing about interference over 1D.

My point being exactly that whether the negative double shows one major or both when the intervention is in a minor and the ramifications of this are what you need to discuss and whether you play ELC.

[Free]

You've got to love the 1♣-2♦ start.

[gwnn]

Good point. Probably the only thing worse than the opening bids in this system are the responses.

[akhare]

Seems almost identical to Miles' Unbalanced ♦, except that the tweak to the 1♦ opening makes a bad system even worse.

[benlessard]

The aim of playing a strong club with some 16+ hands outside 1C is worthwhile however I dont like the method here.

 

My system is

 

1C = 15+

1D = at least 4 unbal 11-22

1M = unbalanced at least 5, 11-14 or 18-22

1NT = 12-14 (5M332 is in 1NT)

2C precision.

 

15-21 with diamonds are in 1D not in 1C. They are much better in a natural D than into a strong 1C.

 

15-17 hands with 5M unbalanced are in 1C. If you want to pull some 5M hands out of 1C might as well take the medium one. So that way you dont have continous range possible. (like doing a michael with super strong or weak hands)

 

I like 2C as natural, 2C 5C+4M possible and 1D showing 4 is waaaayyyy superior than 1D ambiguous and 2C showing 6. The only reason for wanting to play 2C as showing 6C is when you have a balance range in 1D.

When we open 1M we dont really need invite so we are nicely placed for comp bidding. The spit nature of the hand give us easy decision for both opener and responder.

 

After we open 1C we are balanced or very strong or with a major 15-17.. so if we lose our Major fit at least the pts range is narrow.

 

1C--(3H)--??

 

you have 6 pts and 4333. You can pass easily and pass again if partner bid 3S. The only really annoying hand partner can have is 18-19 pts with clubs & balanced 19 pts. You may fail to compete to 3S but game is unlikely.

 

 

frequency of our 1C openings is quite high yet its with hands that are less vulnerable to preemption.

[manudude03]

I managed to avoid playing it until last night. The 1C opening came up once, and landed us in the following 4H only 1 other pair got to making on a crossruff(the only other strong club pair had a major misunderstanding...):

[hv=pc=n&s=sakt9hat5daq975c7&w=s632hk84dkt4cq932&n=s5hq9632d63ckt854&e=sqj874hj7dj82caj6&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1c(16-19%5B20%5D%20any)p1d(negative)1s2dp2hp3hp4hppp]399|300[/hv].

 

Yes, he did go on to call that a system win.

The 1D opening was a lot rockier (what I hadn't noticed in the notes when I posted earlier, is that 1D-2C is any GF), the biggest problem came after [hv=pc=n&s=sjthdqj9875caqj95&d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1d(15%20HCP%20balanced%20or%2011-15%20unbalanced)p2c(any%20GF)3s]133|200[/hv]

 

Not wanting to risk a misunderstanding with 4N, I bid 4D, and so we played in 5D opposite Qx QJxxx AK Qxxx, looks like a fine place (and sure enough it made 11 tricks), except we lost to those pairs in 5C who avoided a spade lead (I also avoided a spade lead, but had to give them 2 spades anyway).

[Zelandakh]

That is the main thing you need to discuss - dealing with interference after 1♦.

The 1D opening <snip>

Not wanting to risk a misunderstanding with 4N

Good to see you took my advice! Seriously though, you could surely see in advance that the 1♦ opening is a weak point - that's precisely why it was so fun (and easy) to mess with in the similar system. Out ofn interest, how did you find it overall?

[manudude03]

Was a fun enough system to play, I don't think I'd want to be playing it in a strong field though. A few other things not mentioned in the notes I found out the hard way, 1D-(1S)-X only shows responding values without a spade stop, thinking it was negative, I jumped to 3H on xx Axxx Qxx AKQx (partner tabling dummy with xxx Qxx KJxx Txx. Lucky the king of hearts was onside, trumps were 3-3, spades 5-3, diamonds 3-3, and the ace of diamonds being with the shorter spades, so I managed to scramble 9 tricks.

 

Also, 1M-2N(J2N)-....3N is RKC, not saying it's terrible, but would never have guessed, we landed in 6N off 2 aces.

 

If anyone really cares, we came top in our direction by just over a board.