(Un)Official thread to complain about the changes to the forums

[aguahombre]

So if people dislike change and the change is confusing, why on earth do it?

Because they can.

[Antrax]

I'm kind of surprised at all the discussion about scrolling. I use "View New Content" to see what's up and if I want to get to a specific forum (usually to post in it, but I guess it also works for those who don't want to use the New Content link) I just type its name in the address bar and the browser auto-completes it to the right link (checked now: "beg", "int" and "gene" are enough for me so it's not even a lot of typing).

I don't see a reason for others not to work like this, and if you do, you would really not care about the forum order.

[gwnn]

That settles it then: if you don't see a reason, there must not be one. There are people who like to use their mouse when browsing instead of typing (I would estimate the number to be around 95%). In fact there are people who browse on devices without a keyboard (it's called a touchscreen). For what it's worth I use both the 'View new content' and clicking on the subforums.

[helene_t]

I think the change will be good for new/occasional/nongeeky users. It must be in the interest of bbo to get more of those people to lurk.

 

I would think that it wouldn't matter for the regulars but apparently I am wrong

[GreenMan]

I JUST WANT MY CHILDHOOD BACK

[Antrax]

That settles it then: if you don't see a reason, there must not be one. There are people who like to use their mouse when browsing instead of typing (I would estimate the number to be around 95%). In fact there are people who browse on devices without a keyboard (it's called a touchscreen). For what it's worth I use both the 'View new content' and clicking on the subforums.

Not sure what I said that implied there must not be a reason, even upon re-reading. I was going for "helpful", suggesting a way that I find comfortable and which makes me indifferent to whatever order is chosen. Not sure what's so offensive about that, TBH.

[gwnn]

Not sure what I said that implied there must not be a reason, even upon re-reading. I was going for "helpful", suggesting a way that I find comfortable and which makes me indifferent to whatever order is chosen. Not sure what's so offensive about that, TBH.

I don't think you were offensive, but also not very helpful. You are indifferent to the order, other people are not. Other people like to use the mouse as well.

[Antrax]

Well, you seemed quite eager to argue, when in fact I'm not calling for either forum order. If this method works for some, great. If not, then I've wasted some bits. Seems like +EV to me.

[gwnn]

You said you didn't see a reason why everyone isn't browsing your way and I gave you a reason. Anyway I am now also wasting cyberspace.

[Antrax]

Yes, that's the exchange between us. Except you threw in a bunch of other stuff, which is what I was commenting on. It's possible I misread your tone, but you seemed quite confrontational.

[mr1303]

Sorry Gordon, we cross posted. I was saying yes to Lalldonn

[gordontd]

Sorry Gordon, we cross posted. I was saying yes to Lalldonn

No problem. My misunderstanding.

[broze]

Is it very important? Of course not. Will we get used to it? Of course. But was it the right decision? No way. It will be a perpetual annoyance to most of the members.

 

I don't see why. As has been mentioned if it's that much of an irritation for you to scroll down just minimise the BBO discussion tab. If you never read that forum then no change, if you read that forum infrequently then just maximise it when you want to browse it as opposed to scrolling down like you used to. Seems to me you pretty much break even.

[Phil]

I don't particularly like the forums these days anyway. There's not enough discussion about things I care about and too much focus on other things. I don't see GIB ever becoming SOTA and the 'fixes' are something uninteresting to me. There also seems to be a lot of wonkish system discussion and its over moderated (read:bland). Maybe it's just become too big but I see myself skipping over most of the posts.

 

As far as this latest change I voted that I don't like it even though I've been using 'view new content' for close to nine years now I guess.

[barmar]

Sorry I think this is so dumb I can't even leave the complaint at one post. I read your announcement post again. Is "the main purpose of this discussion board is to support BBO" your opinion or a fact that is stated somewhere? Because I think most of us would disagree with you, including the many of us who have been posting on the forums for years longer than you have worked for BBO. Please listen to your members, particularly the ones who care more!

The links to the forum from the www.bridgebase.com website say that this is one of the ways to get support for the software. Although we also host general bridge discussion, that's not how it's described.

[barmar]

Yes. That's the point. The change will annoy most of the regular posters here to avoid things being a tiny bit confusing for people who post here once and then never post again.

I like to think that accomodating newbies is very important. Power users don't need hand-holding, they can accomodate. And while the regulars may post more, I think over time there are more of the newbies looking for BBO support, so this change benefits more people.

As for the question being biased - did anyone read the thread name?

Not only is the question biased, but the pollees are not a representative sample. The people who will benefit from this change will never participate. It's like doing a poll about homelessness by postal mail.

 

If the organization had been like this for years, I don't think anyone would think there's anything wrong with it. It's only because it's different from what you're used to that it's even an issue.

[barmar]

You should also consider that what, 95% maybe, of all the posts made are now going to be less convenient, with the rest more convenient.

That seems like an overbid. How much time do you spend in the top-level, selecting forums? When you're reading and posting, I expect you spend much more of your time in the forums you participate, looking at the list of threads, than in the top-level looking at the list of categories.

 

Also, do you realize that when you're going from forum to forum you don't have to go all the way out to the top-level? You can select the category from the breadcrumbs list at the top. Or you can use the menu at the bottom to jump directly to another forum. So this inconvenience only hits you when you first login, after that you can navigate conveniently within the areas you care about.

 

I wish the forum software allowed you to customize the forum list -- there's no "one size fits all" answer to this.

[dustinst22]

I think the negative unintended consequence of this will be less participation in the bridge-related discussions by either newer players or newer people to the forums. In fact I think there will be less discussion even by experienced members. And that's a bad thing imo. In fact it's the exact opposite of what you should want on this forum.

 

Sure, the forum may have originally been created to be BBO-focused. Instead it became the best Bridge discussion forum on the internet. Is this such a bad thing? What resulted was different than intended, so why not keep the focus on what the forum does well -- that is to provide a hub for Bridge-related discussion.

[cherdano]

To be honest, I am quite offended by this change. It looks like you started the forum trying to attract people to discuss bridge, and now you turned it into something to discuss BBO. (Yes I am exaggerating to make a point.)

 

BBF is already inferior in various ways to its main competitor offering online bridge discussions. I am not sure why it thinks it is a good idea to add another way to make the bridge content one step further away to find.

 

I am not sure why so many people claim that it's not a problem because of "View New Content". BBF made this link almost unusable a while ago, by adding the Bridge Laws Forum, and the foreign language forums, without updating the forum software to adequately manage these additions from the user point of view.

[Fluffy]

It should be so easy to program the forums to show up bridge topics on top for regular posters, just that nobody is gonna dig on the code to do it.

[barmar]

It should be so easy to program the forums to show up bridge topics on top for regular posters, just that nobody is gonna dig on the code to do it.

It's not our code to dig into. We purchased this software, and it's quite complex. All our customizations are done through extension facilities built into the software: getting the login information from the BBO user database, bbcode for suit symbols, hand viewer links, and the hand editor tool. AFAIK, they don't provide a method to tailor the forum layout for different users, and we're not going to rewrite the software to add it.

 

Anyway, I'm going to put it back. I think I just overreacted to the most recent time I had to move a post. I think I only have to do this about once a week, it's not really that bad. Additionally, the day after I made the change, someone posted a question about equipment for bridge clubs in the General BBO Forum, and I had to move it to Offline Bridge (but after I did that I noticed that he'd posted a duplicate there himself).

[Fluffy]

Is this the unnoficcial thread to complain that the forums have moved again when I was starting to get used to it?

[aguahombre]

Is this the unnoficcial thread to complain that the forums have moved again when I was starting to get used to it?

Heh. I nominate your post for the "Keep stirring the pot" award. Love it.

[lalldonn]

Yay for barmar. The motto I live by is "whining works" and this is one more example.

[gwnn]

Thanks! :)