You know its a psych, but how do you expose it?

[CSGibson]

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E-W are a worldclass pair known for psyching frequently. How do you handle this?

[lalldonn]

Double then bid spades. Easy rule: When it goes (preempt) pass/double (new suit), doubling or bidding shows the same as if responder has raised the preempt instead. So double here is just takeout of hearts (or 3♠ would be natural), and you double followed by bidding a suit to show a good hand. I have yet to regret having this rule on a single hand ever. It also makes psyching by them a big losing strategy, since all he has done by bidding 2♠ rather than 3♥ is given you more available bids without taking away a single bid from you.

[Cascade]

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E-W are a worldclass pair known for psyching frequently. How do you handle this?

 

Several options

 

1. Play 3♠ and 4♠ as natural but you are probably unsuitable for both of those actions here.

 

2. Pass and bid on the next round

 

3. 3NT or double and bid NTs

 

4. Double to show the bid suit when they bid a new suit over their preempt.

 

5. If they psyche on this auction frequently then a description of natural and forcing seems inadequate to me so I would get the director involved

[ArtK78]

Agree that the double shows a takeout double of hearts, and pass by partner is certainly a strong possibility.

 

My first thought was that this should just be for penalty, but takeout of hearts is a better definition.

[dake50]

Double then bid spades. Easy rule: When it goes (preempt) pass/double (new suit), doubling or bidding shows the same as if responder has raised the preempt instead. So double here is just takeout of hearts (or 3♠ would be natural), and you double followed by bidding a suit to show a good hand. I have yet to regret having this rule on a single hand ever. It also makes psyching by them a big losing strategy, since all he has done by bidding 2♠ rather than 3♥ is given you more available bids without taking away a single bid from you. - lalldonn

 

*** Still have the problem: I have a good 5+S suit AND a good hand.

As I play X, then Q-bid 3S still isn't natural. They may have stolen

our 4S contract, now misbid into 3NT. OR maybe 6xS with RHO's 2S

keeps us out of a terrible misfit.

*** That's the intent of preempts, psyches, and many other "hope

to trouble opponents" bids. Will they (1) misbid, (2) underbid,

(3) overbid, or (4) strain their brains to exhaustion trying to counter?

[Finch]

*** Still have the problem: I have a good 5+S suit AND a good hand.

As I play X, then Q-bid 3S still isn't natural. They may have stolen

our 4S contract, now misbid into 3NT. OR maybe 6xS with RHO's 2S

keeps us out of a terrible misfit.

 

Don't play x then cue-bid of 3S as 'not natural'. Double is take-out of hearts. If you need a cue bid, bid hearts next round. YOu don't need two cue-bids.

[jeffford76]

Easy rule: When it goes (preempt) pass/double (new suit), doubling or bidding shows the same as if responder has raised the preempt instead. So double here is just takeout of hearts (or 3♠ would be natural), and you double followed by bidding a suit to show a good hand.

 

This is my preferred method as well. (Which might matter to Chris since I was playing with him. :))

[lmilne]

Don't play x then cue-bid of 3S as 'not natural'. Double is take-out of hearts. If you need a cue bid, bid hearts next round. YOu don't need two cue-bids.

 

The danger is that someone will bid 3♥, back to you. This is where I've seen psyches succeed, when one partner thinks that 3♠ must be artificial (as it is the only cue-bid available at the 3-level) and the other one think it's natural, presumably because they're staring at six spades in their hand. As you say, 3♠ must be natural, and the hands that would cue-bid 3♥ simply double again.

[straube]

I think I still like double as penalty. 2H-2S may be a special case because it's so low, but we play that double is penalty for other change of suits as well and it's nice to keep the same meaning...

 

2H-3D

2S-3H

3C-3S

 

The trouble with double as takeout of opener's suit is that you really have to have a hand to do this...because sometimes they really aren't psyching and we don't have a fit. Double as penalty is safer than a 3-suit takeout and lets me enter the auction when they are trying to steal our suit but I may not have the values or suit to overcall.

 

On the hand in question, Chris knows that RHO can't have the values for a 2S call, but at other times it may not be so clear. Let's say I have AQJxx Ax xxx xxx. I don't want to overcall 3S here and I don't want to pass. If I pass it may go 2H-2S, 3H-P and now what? Was RHO psyching or not?

 

OTOH, if I have a takeout of hearts I think I have more options. I can pass and let them get into trouble and double them if they land somewhere other than hearts. If they stop in 3H I think double would be takeout.

 

I'd like to ask the group what the "standard" meaning of cue bidding preemptor's suit. 2H-2S (3H) shows what? I would think a very strong takeout of hearts but I've never seen this discussed.