Uncommon Auction

[broze]

[hv=d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1dd1h(Nat)2h(Nat%2C%205+%21H)p3d(%3F)]133|100[/hv]

 

1) How do you play 3♦ in the above auction?

2) Is it game forcing?

3) Can it have a heart fit?

4) If not how do you show a slam try in hearts without shortage - indeed is there much point devoting bids to this?

[the_clown]

I dont have specific agreement about this, but undiscussed I would assume GF asking for further description(6th♥ or stopper). If I have ♥ fit I have a slam try.

[Codo]

I used to play 3 ♦ as asking for stopper in Diamonds, but that is not common practice.

 

Now I play it as GF with Hearts.

If I do not play it this way, I would guess that splinters, new suits and later support for Hearts , 4 NT, 5 ♥ and 6 ♥ are avaiable for slam search. Could be enough even without 3 ♦....

 

 

 

[aguahombre]

Since 2H showed 5+ hearts and obviously enough values to compete opposite a normal takeout double, then for us--

 

3D is G.F. Partner is supposed to do something intelligent, which would include showing a diamond stopper.

 

It is not likely 3D bidder holds 3+ hearts as he would raise hearts. 2S would also be forcing on this auction, as would 3C after partner has shown some stuff. So, the "something intelligent" should be extra heart length, a diamond stopper, or a second suit (3+ cards in clubs in a pinch).

[Zelandakh]

How about a return question for you. How do you play 3♦ in the auction: (1♦) - X - (1♠) - 2♥; (P) - 3♦? Although partner has shown one less heart here, it makes sense to me to play these auction as essentially the same, albeit that more inferences can be drawn in the OP auction. For me, 3♦ is an artificial game force without a better bid. In contrast to agua, I would think that the hand would contain 3+ hearts a good percentage of the time in the OP auction, since almost every other GF hand without fit will continue 2♠, 3♣ or some number of NT.

[aguahombre]

How about a return question for you. How do you play 3♦ in the auction: (1♦) - X - (1♠) - 2♥; (P) - 3♦? Although partner has shown one less heart here, it makes sense to me to play these auction as essentially the same, albeit that more inferences can be drawn in the OP auction. For me, 3♦ is an artificial game force without a better bid. In contrast to agua, I would think that the hand would contain 3+ hearts a good percentage of the time in the OP auction, since almost every other GF hand without fit will continue 2♠, 3♣ or some number of NT.

I play your auction as a huge hand with maybe 3 (not four) hearts and partner can choose NT, hearts or a black suit. The only difference between the OP and yours for me is that with 3-card heart support, hearts is trump when she has 5.

 

If you held AKXX AX XXX AKXX in the OP auction, would you rebid NT?

[Zelandakh]

This hand, along with 4225 and weak clubs, are essentially why I included the word almost. Actually, the one I had more in mind was with 20hcp but it amounts to the same thing. In your previous message you stated that 3 hearts was unlikely. I maintain that slammy hands with 3+ hearts that want to bid 3♦ are actually quite likely in comparison with strong (semi-) balanced hands without a diamond stop.

[aguahombre]

Where we seem to disagree is on wanting to cue 3D instead of raising hearts to the appropriate level when we know of an 8-card fit.

[PhilKing]

I wouldn't be inclined to attach any special meaning to this cue bid. After all, we will want to play in 3NT fairly frequently even with an eight card fit.