cloa513 Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 [hv=pc=n&s=sakj6ht9654dk7cq5&n=s7543hq2da6ckjt97]133|200[/hv] 3NT is better than 4♠ which could be killable with AK♥ cashed and a high ruff. Sure a Spades guess is needed but that's a lot less than most 3NT. Could your bidding get there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahydra Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Playing with myself I would make the pitiful effort 1H-2C; 2H-pass. So I guess not. I think the only way to do it is 1H-2C; 2H-2NT; 3NT where both players have rose-tinted glasses on. ahydra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 1 ♥ 1 ♠2 ♠ 2 NT3 NT pass would be possible, but of course in that case openers minors are reversed and they lead a diamond to KJxx... And I must admit that I would not invite game with the north hand anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Once I find the spade fit I am playing in spades, probably in 3♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 With 23 points, a spade fit, and no shortness, I would probably also play in spades but not reach game. I'm not sure if this is a problem with my bidding or not :huh: Also, 3NT is not guaranteed to make, nor 4♠ to go down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 1H-1S2S-pass bok bok bok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Not unless you heard it at the bar. If South shows 5+♥ and 4♠s then sure no North would consider NT in real life. With ♦Ax vs any random ♦ holding it's probably better to play 4♠: either you can ruff with a small trump, or you only have 4 or less ♦s in which case NT is extremely dangerous. And as a side note, North first has to be convinced he has an invite AND South should be convinced to accept the invite with his poor ♥ suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Playing with myself I would make the pitiful effort 1H-2C; 2H-pass. So I guess not. I think the only way to do it is 1H-2C; 2H-2NT; 3NT where both players have rose-tinted glasses on. ahydraIt's a sound general principle that if you're going to bid 2♣ rather than 1♠ then pass a 2♥ rebid, you should have responded 1♠. Never bury the major. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloa513 Posted March 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 With 23 points, a spade fit, and no shortness, I would probably also play in spades but not reach game. I'm not sure if this is a problem with my bidding or not :huh: Also, 3NT is not guaranteed to make, nor 4♠ to go down.Sound- better than most 3NT bids with 25 or more HCP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Yes with open cards 3 NT is great. But hard to find out that heart ruffs are a thret against 4 club, that diamonds are doubled stopped despite the 2-2 break and that the queen of clubs fills so lovely into the now running five card suit. I am impressed if you can find all this out low enough to make an informed descission that 3 NT is so sound... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 [hv=pc=n&s=sakj6ht9654dk7cq5&n=s7543hq2da6ckjt97]133|200[/hv] 3NT is better than 4♠ which could be killable with AK♥ cashed and a high ruff. Sure a Spades guess is needed but that's a lot less than most 3NT. Could your bidding get there?My bidding couldn't get there and my bet would be that if yours could/should or did then you have a terrible bidding method or appalling judgement. This is yet another example of people not understanding that bidding methods should be aimed at maximizing the number of good contracts reached while minimizing the number of bad ones reached. Any method that 'gets you to 3N' here would seem almost certainly to be one that would get you to a lot of very bad contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 [hv=pc=n&s=sakj6ht9654dk7cq5&n=s7543hq2da6ckjt97]133|200[/hv] 3NT is better than 4♠ which could be killable with AK♥ cashed and a high ruff. Sure a Spades guess is needed but that's a lot less than most 3NT. Could your bidding get there?My bidding couldn't get there and my bet would be that if yours could/should or did then you have a terrible bidding method or appalling judgement. This is yet another example of people not understanding that bidding methods should be aimed at maximizing the number of good contracts reached while minimizing the number of bad ones reached. Any method that 'gets you to 3N' here would seem almost certainly to be one that would get you to a lot of very bad contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Sound- better than most 3NT bids with 25 or more HCP.3NT looks pretty ordinary to me: diamond, club, diamond, and now you either find the ♠Q or you don't. I guess we have different ideas of "sound". OK, some extra chances from a non-diamond lead, and yes I would bid it seeing both hands, but still not like it is a huge favorite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jallerton Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 It's a sound general principle that if you're going to bid 2♣ rather than 1♠ then pass a 2♥ rebid, you should have responded 1♠. Never bury the major. Yes, that's a sound general principle, but it only applies if you want to offer both strains. It's not clear to suggest playing in a trump suit of ♠7543, especially when you have a potential source of tricks outside. Some people say they would pass after 1♥-1♠-2♠. I'd much prefer to play this hand in no trumps or hearts. Playing Acol, 1♥-2♣-2♥-2NT is fine. If I had to respond 1♠, I would move with 2NT if partner raised to 2♠. This hand is much more powerful than say 7543 Q2 A6 KJ642. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Yes, that's a sound general principle, but it only applies if you want to offer both strains. It's not clear to suggest playing in a trump suit of ♠7543, especially when you have a potential source of tricks outside. Some people say they would pass after 1♥-1♠-2♠. I'd much prefer to play this hand in no trumps or hearts. Playing Acol, 1♥-2♣-2♥-2NT is fine. And I'm sure you'll enjoy playing 2♥ or 2N opposite AKxx, xxxxx, xx, AQ particularly at matchpoints where ♣/♥ 4/2, ♠3-2 looks much better in spades. Depends somewhat how often you raise to 2♠ with 3, we do less frequently than most. The other danger of course is that they lead a diamond and partner is only 50% or no play get to your clubs once he knocks the ace out. AJ9x, Kxxxx, Jx, Qx is another potential disaster if you bid clubs and either pass or bid 2N or bid 1♠ and bid again over 2♠, you might make 3♠ but I'd much rather be in 2 and that's with a fitting Q♣ If I had to respond 1♠, I would move with 2NT if partner raised to 2♠. This hand is much more powerful than say 7543 Q2 A6 KJ642. This is fine, I was talking about the situation where you feel you're only making one bid, I would pass 2♠ because partner usually has something closer to what I posted above if I bid again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 And I'm sure you'll enjoy playing 2♥ or 2N opposite AKxx, xxxxx, xx, AQ particularly at matchpoints where ♣/♥ 4/2, ♠3-2 looks much better in spades. Depends somewhat how often you raise to 2♠ with 3, we do less frequently than most. The other danger of course is that they lead a diamond and partner is only 50% or no play get to your clubs once he knocks the ace out. AJ9x, Kxxxx, Jx, Qx is another potential disaster if you bid clubs and either pass or bid 2N or bid 1♠ and bid again over 2♠, you might make 3♠ but I'd much rather be in 2 and that's with a fitting Q♣ This is fine, I was talking about the situation where you feel you're only making one bid, I would pass 2♠ because partner usually has something closer to what I posted above if I bid again. and where would you like to play opposite 1098x AKJxx Kx Qx ?making up sample hands tells you nothing. What is important is the relative frequency of winning and losing layouts, not that an action might work well or badly opposite one particular hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 and where would you like to play opposite 1098x AKJxx Kx Qx ?making up sample hands tells you nothing. What is important is the relative frequency of winning and losing layouts, not that an action might work well or badly opposite one particular hand.You might not enjoy anything higher than 2♥ much, yes you will often make as many tricks in NT as you will in spades or hearts on this hand, but any minor holdings other than the K♦ and a club honour is very likely to be bad (or a lottery as to where K♦ is) and I don't fancy that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 1H-1S2S-pass bok bok bok.Yep. Not the chicken part, but the auction --short and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alik1974 Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 1 ♥ 1 ♠2 ♠ 2 NT3 NT pass would be possible, but of course in that case openers minors are reversed and they lead a diamond to KJxx... And I must admit that I would not invite game with the north hand anyway. Same bidding for me. Though I guess I would invite game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gszes Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 1h 1s 2s 3c 3d 3n opener has to have something in clubs to try for gameand surely we are not bidding 3n with only 1 dia stopso the 9 trick game (thinking p might have poor spades)actually looks eaiser than 4s. My heart Q even looksvaluable (another illusion). This sequence also manages toavoid 4s on those occassions p raises with only 3 spades(and say a stiff dia A). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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