What is this?

[fromageGB]

gwnn

 

Don't forget, I play a forcing 1NT, so opener cannot pass with a minimum. Responder could have a 15 count balanced hand.

This means that a weaker opener with a fairly balanced hand has to bid something. A 4531 12 count bids what? A 4522 bids what?

 

This the downside of the forcing NT, but those who play it have to live with the disadvantages as well as the advantages. There is no "sensible" rebid, and I like to keep 2♥ to show a 6 card suit. So what to do? If someone has discovered a new bid, ideally coming between 1NT and 2♣, please let me know. There are different choices :

 

(1) You could say that 2♦ is a genuine 4 card suit. That means every other hand, including the 12 count 4531, has to bid an artificial 2♣. This can be combined with a Gazzilli option of say a variety of 17+ hands, then after a 2♦ relay you could, for example, say 2♥ = any of the weak options without 4 diamonds, may have 5 clubs, but equally may have 1 club. Not much use in helping partner judge the right contract. And you don't want to bid higher than 2♥, as that is often the only resting place with a weak opener opposite a weak responder.

 

(2) You could say that 2♦ is a 2 card suit. This is a compromise which makes that bid easier to pass when responder has more diamonds than opener has hearts, and means that 2♣ would be a 3 card suit if weak.

 

(3) neither of those options are much good, in my view, in describing the hand, and both have the limitation that forces gazzilli followed by 2♥ to be a minimum hand, and this does not show a 6 card suit. So my choice is to abandon the attempt to show minors completely. Now 2♣ can be 15+, to be followed by completely natural bids after the relay such that a bid above 2NT is 17+, and a lower bid is 15/16. As a consequence, an opener 2♦ says nothing about the hand other than it is 12-14.

 

No, I can show no reference recommending this treatment, and I did say I am not recommending it. But I do appreciate being able to show 12-14 and 15/16 with different bids, and think the benefits of this outweigh the loss of very poor (practically useless) definition in the minors. I am happy with it.

 

I would be interested (jillybean permitting) to hear what others do in this 45xx scenario when playing a forcing 1NT.

[Free]

1♥-1NT-2♥ always shows a 6 card suit. Responder basically has the following options:

2NT = this is similar to 1M-1NT-2m-2NT (which is a balanced INV), however, balanced hands have fit. So this rather promisses a singleton M with some 5431 distribution, but it's still an INV. (invites with a 6 card suit shouldn't start with 1NT, with a 5440 responder should've responded 1NT, with 5-5m he'd now bid 2♠, so 5431 pretty much all that's left)

3♥ = invitational with 2♥. Invites with 3+♥ bid differently in our partnership. However, when INV with 3♥ start with 1NT, you can now bid either 3♥ or 4♥ depending on how good the hand is. Opener will just bid game with a max hand and pass with a min. He shouldn't count on an extra ♥.

 

The question about 4=5=2=2's has been asked, and the standard "solution" is for opener to rebid 2♣ (so responder can still pass or bid 2♦ with a weak hand and long m). With 4=5=1=3 or 4=5=3=1 the 3 card m is rebid, just like when opener is balanced (5332).

As you know, I'm a Gazzilli fan, so I play 1M-1NT-2♦ as a 4 card suit (only exception is 4=5=3=1) and 2♣ Gazzilli (showing 2+♣ in case opener is min). It's quite a good tradeoff imo.

[fromageGB]

As you know, I'm a Gazzilli fan, so I play 1M-1NT-2♦ as a 4 card suit (only exception is 4=5=3=1) and 2♣ Gazzilli (showing 2+♣ in case opener is min). It's quite a good tradeoff imo.

So you get the useful knowledge of a (usually) 4 card diamond suit, but how does opener show where he is in the 11-16 range? Say with a 6 card heart suit?

 

I suppose if you include a 5 card major in your 1NT open, that avoids the 15/16 problem with a 5422 or 3532, but I must admit, I like to open a major whatever the strength, so I have to cater for those as well.

[Free]

So you get the useful knowledge of a (usually) 4 card diamond suit, but how does opener show where he is in the 11-16 range? Say with a 6 card heart suit?

 

I suppose if you include a 5 card major in your 1NT open, that avoids the 15/16 problem with a 5422 or 3532, but I must admit, I like to open a major whatever the strength, so I have to cater for those as well.

Slightly going off topic here, but ok, lets keep it short. ;)

 

Our strong hands in Gazzilli start from 16+. So weaker hands bid 'natural' (in your example 1M-1NT-2M shows 11-15 with 6+M). Opener doesn't have to show if he has 11 rather than 15, responder will invite if he's strong enough after which opener can accept with a max or reject with a min. If responder doesn't even have an invite, we stay low.