mike777 Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 IMPS, GAME ALL (1D)=P=(1NT)=DOUBLE(3D)=? J2...Q86....T52....KQ984 NO SPECIAL AGREEMENT ABOUT DOUBLE RHO OPENS 1D AND REBIDS 3D YOUR CALL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 4C, a little bizarre because there's a 1N bid on my left which usually has clubs (esp when RHO jump rebid diamonds), but what else can I do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 I would squeak a pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 I would squeak a pass. Our vul senior opps always have their bids ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Pass. Bidding 4♣ runs the risk of a penalty double by LHO and a large minus without much of a prospect of producing a sizable plus score. Call me chicken if you must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 IMPS, GAME ALL (1D)=P=(1NT)=DOUBLE(3D)=? J2...Q86....T52....KQ984 NO SPECIAL AGREEMENT ABOUT DOUBLE RHO OPENS 1D AND REBIDS 3D YOUR CALL? Are opps playing inverted minors ? so could the 1N bidder hold a 3343 2♦ raise that he didn't fancy bidding 3 on opposite a potential 3 card suit vulnerable ? if so I could be passing a 6-4 fit with xxx at the 3 level and I really don't fancy that. I'll bid 4♣ hoping the layout is something like: [hv=pc=n&s=sj2hq86dt52ckq984&w=sa643hkt2dakj873c&n=skt95ha943dcaj632&e=sq87hj75dq964ct75]399|300[/hv] Where 4♣ and 4♦ can both make and your 4♣ can easily end the auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Pass. Bidding 4♣ runs the risk of a penalty double by LHO and a large minus without much of a prospect of producing a sizable plus score. Call me chicken if you must. I can't believe that getting to 5C is not considered a sizable plus score. If partner has a diamond void (not so unlikely) then we need very little from partner for game and he will bid it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Are opps playing inverted minors ? so could the 1N bidder hold a 3343 2♦ raise that he didn't fancy bidding 3 on opposite a potential 3 card suit vulnerable ? if so I could be passing a 6-4 fit with xxx at the 3 level and I really don't fancy that. I'll bid 4♣ hoping the layout is something like: [hv=pc=n&s=sj2hq86dt52ckq984&w=sa643hkt2dakj873c&n=skt95ha943dcaj632&e=sq87hj75dq964ct75]399|300[/hv] Where 4♣ and 4♦ can both make and your 4♣ can easily end the auction. This layout is only possible if the bidding goes anti-clockwise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 I can't believe that getting to 5C is not considered a sizable plus score. If partner has a diamond void (not so unlikely) then we need very little from partner for game and he will bid it. I know I also want to bid 4C.Tell me, what would you bid after 1D P 1NT looking at K109xxKJxxxxAx ? (yes I know they might bid and make 3NT if that's partner's hand) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 I suspect that many of the hands on which our side can make 5♣ the opps may have play for 5♦, but that is not the main issue. The main issue is risk/reward. There are hands that are consistent with the auction on which our side can make 11 tricks in clubs (I suspect that there are not many, but they certainly exist). But, as Frances points out graphically, there are hands that are consistent with the auction on which our side will get killed in 4♣. So, are we going to stick our necks out at the 4 level on what may amount to a part-score battle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 I know I also want to bid 4C.Tell me, what would you bid after 1D P 1NT looking at K109xxKJxxxxAx ? (yes I know they might bid and make 3NT if that's partner's hand) That was close to my construction - unless the 3♦ bidder has four spades, partner has to have five. That means he is 54??, since he would overcall 2♠ with 5314 or similar, and I know I would double with any 54?? 11-count regardless of club length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 I know I also want to bid 4C.Tell me, what would you bid after 1D P 1NT looking at K109xxKJxxxxAx ? (yes I know they might bid and make 3NT if that's partner's hand) I would double of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 It seems to me that either one or both of the opponents are light on HCP. In that case, they both rate to have more diamonds than usua (jump rebidding a 7 card suit requires less than a 6 card suit, bidding 1N vul is safer with a diamond fit if you have low HCP). That is why I think this 5422 layout is not likely. Heck, if partner is light he is more likely to be short in diamonds also (he can double with a 5404 9 count, but needs more with 1 diamond, and even more with 2 diamonds). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 This layout is only possible if the bidding goes anti-clockwiseVery true, I wish people would use the hand editor, but I think the sort of point stands, there are plenty of hands where 3♦ and 4♣ both make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted March 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 ok thanks for all the replies... this was Jeff Meckstroth'S hand they lost the senior team by 3 imps vs Kasle team IN finals. the other table had a very different auction to 5c. Jeff bid 3h on this one. I thought Jeff's bidding something on this hand was very very much in character and so I wanted to post this very difficult deal! Bob Hamman'a hAND WAS:\\ KQ862...KT43...VOID....A853 he raised to 4h and lost 13 imps I thought this was very interesting and very difficult hand on many levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 3H, thats a very...meck bid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 IMPS, GAME ALL. ♠ J2 ♥ Q86 ♦ T52 ♣ KQ984(1♦) _P (1N) _X(3♦) ?? IMO 3♥ = 10, Pass = 9, 4♣ = 8, _X = 7. Hope opponents' ♥ break 3-3, when you don't mind reversing the dummy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 4C. I think pass is poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 What would Double show for everyone in this auction? Presumably no 4 card major (we would just bid it or 4♦ with both) and clearly wanting to compete. Perhaps this should show one or both 3 card majors with clubs and some values. I am mildly surprised that noone other than Nige even mentioned it as a possibility. 4♣ would be my 4th choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted March 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 What would Double show for everyone in this auction? Presumably no 4 card major (we would just bid it or 4♦ with both) and clearly wanting to compete. Perhaps this should show one or both 3 card majors with clubs and some values. I am mildly surprised that noone other than Nige even mentioned it as a possibility. 4♣ would be my 4th choice. You are are kind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhm Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 I can't believe that getting to 5C is not considered a sizable plus score. If partner has a diamond void (not so unlikely) then we need very little from partner for game and he will bid it.I think the question is hard to answer without agreements and since these sequences are frequent I find it strange that few pairs bother to define them. For what it is worth I like to play after 1♦-1NT and all other sequences where opener has opened a minor and responder has denied majors: DBL: Both majors, spades never longer than hearts. 2♣: hearts, but tolerance for spades2♦: both majors, spades longer. 2♥: no tolerance for spades 2♠: no tolerance for hearts2NT: three suiter with a void in opener's suit. I can not show an unbid minor below the three level and can not remember having missed it. Rainer Herrmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted March 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 HAMMAN AND MECKSTOTH HAVE NO GENERAL AGREEMENTS. FOR SAKE OF THIS POST ASSUME DOUBLE IS A NON ALERT. FEEL FREE TO SAY THEY SHOULD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 http://www.geekgumbo.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/caps-lock-off2.jpg 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 FWIW, I would double again on Hamman's hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gszes Posted March 9, 2013 Report Share Posted March 9, 2013 4c seems right i was unhappy with those that feel KTxxx AQxx xx Ax orsome such was a good x over 1n my choice would have been 2d (majors)or pass if p wanted to play that as natural. There is little reason for p to strainto bid in a live auction without reasonably having what one expects you to have.That is why the po seat was invented, My hand is at the absolute top (5th club)of any hand p might have expected when they x. The lack of power in diamonds makes my hand even better. Cannot see selling out to 3d which is more likely preemptive than strong since rho could have xx with a strong hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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