Is the Hexagon guarded?

[kgr]

I was reading the squeeze articles on bridgeguys website and wondered if the Hexagon squeeze is really additional:

http://www.bridgeguys.com/squeeze/hexagon_squeeze.html

 

[hv=pc=n&s=h4dAJcA&w=sKhK6dqc&n=sQhAJd7&e=sAhQdK6c]399|300[/hv]

South plays ♣A:

West cannot discard a ♥ or a ♦; and has to discard ♠K.

North can now discard ♥J and East ♥Q.

♥A will squeeze East in ♠ and ♦.

So ♥J - and the Hexagon - is unneeded? Or is there another layout for the Hexagon?

[manudude03]

Maybe I don't understand the question, but if North had a club instead of the ♥J, West can throw a heart and East a spade, and then there's no squeeze.

[kgr]

Maybe I don't understand the question, but if North had a club instead of the ♥J, West can throw a heart and East a spade, and then there's no squeeze.

I mean that the ♥J can also be ♥2 and that the guard threat in is not needed.

[Fluffy]

looks like west can have ♥J, north the ♥6 and east another spade instead of the heart. Its the first time I hear about Hexagon squeezes. The authors shouldn't had used a guard squeeze lie out in hearts because it is missleading (unless I am overlooking something)

 

EDIT: Now I read the article, the authors says that dummy's iddle card is the diamond, not the heart, squeezing Guard squeezing East in hearts.

[GreenMan]

I was reading the squeeze articles on bridgeguys website and wondered if the Hexagon squeeze is really additional:

http://www.bridgeguys.com/squeeze/hexagon_squeeze.html

 

[hv=pc=n&s=h4dAJcA&w=sKhK6dqc&n=sQhAJd7&e=sAhQdK6c]399|300[/hv]

South plays ♣A:

West cannot discard a ♥ or a ♦; and has to discard ♠K.

North can now discard ♥J and East ♥Q.

♥A will squeeze East in ♠ and ♦.

 

So ♥J - and the Hexagon - is unneeded? Or is there another layout for the Hexagon?

 

Hmm, at the linked page, declarer discards a ♦ from dummy instead of the ♥J., and the squeeze on East operates right away instead of on the next trick. At first glance it appears that both lines work. Am I missing something?

 

ETA: Looks as if discarding the ♥J just eliminates the "double guard" aspect. The ♦ discard creates a more elegant position.

[WellSpyder]

We sometimes get complaints that threads in the Expert forum should really be in this one. I wonder whether the reverse is true in this case? (Though I suppose an understanding of Hexagon squeezes is no more useful in practice to an expert than an I/A player!)

 

And no, GreenMan, I don't think you are missing anything.

[Fluffy]

The position can be really augmented:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sh2dajcakqj&w=sahkqjdq97c&n=s2ha854d53c&e=skqh9dkt42c]399|300[/hv]

 

With this position south makes all the tricks, thanks to the ♠2

[GreenMan]

We sometimes get complaints that threads in the Expert forum should really be in this one. I wonder whether the reverse is true in this case? (Though I suppose an understanding of Hexagon squeezes is no more useful in practice to an expert than an I/A player!)

 

And no, GreenMan, I don't think you are missing anything.

 

Thanks, WS.

 

I suppose end-position analysis is a worthy topic for this forum. I suspect the OP was asking "Is my analysis right?" rather than "How do I execute a hexagon squeeze?" Also, it's kind of fun as an I/A to learn about these positions. I still remember when I was still in Flight C recognizing a Vienna Coup position. I'd have had quite a story to tell if only one opponent had been guarding both suits. :P

[kgr]

looks like west can have ♥J, north the ♥6 and east another spade instead of the heart. Its the first time I hear about Hexagon squeezes. The authors shouldn't had used a guard squeeze lie out in hearts because it is missleading (unless I am overlooking something)

 

EDIT: Now I read the article, the authors says that dummy's iddle card is the diamond, not the heart, squeezing Guard squeezing East in hearts.

So, can I conclude that the Hexagon squeeze is more elegant because squeezing a trick earlier, but in fact unneeded at the table?

[Fluffy]

Yes I think so, the thing you should remember is the AJ in hand and Ax in dummy (guarded by leftie only) with spare card on the 4th suit in dummy. given that position with count rectified you only need split honnors where you have AJ to get an aditional trick (but keep very good track to count all the suits)

[kgr]

We sometimes get complaints that threads in the Expert forum should really be in this one. I wonder whether the reverse is true in this case?

I think you minsunderstood this. The expert forum is only for expert players (expert player, not expert subject is important) to post in.

(Though I suppose an understanding of Hexagon squeezes is no more useful in practice to an expert than an I/A player!)

That is my original question: elegant, but not useful at all?

[Fluffy]

Not rexactly that koen, what is wrong is that you post a problem of advanced level on the expert forum because you want experts to answer.

 

In fact if you post an advanced or intermediate question on expert forum you will get no real experts answering them, while if you post them on I/A forum some will gather there and answer.

 

 

But if you have a very good topic, wich is in fact expert level, posting on expert forum is correct.

 

BTW: here is a quick example, you should have no troubles finding the killing lead now:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sh54dajcakt875432&w=skj9hqjt93dq962c6&n=s7532hak86d853cqj&e=saqt864h72dkt74c9&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=7cppp]399|300[/hv]

[kgr]

The position can be really augmented:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sh2dajcakqj&w=sahkqjdq97c&n=s2ha854d53c&e=skqh9dkt42c]399|300[/hv]

 

With this position south makes all the tricks, thanks to the ♠2

That is similar to:

[hv=pc=n&s=sh2dajca&w=sahkqdqc&n=s2ha8d5c&e=skh9dktc]399|300[/hv]

what is basically a guard squeeze?

[Fluffy]

yes, I think I am trying to teach you guard squezes when you know them pretty well already :). East on that diagram has 5 cards, but really only 4 are needed, ♥9 can be anything, even ♣K

[kgr]

Thanks, WS.

 

I suppose end-position analysis is a worthy topic for this forum. I suspect the OP was asking "Is my analysis right?" rather than "How do I execute a hexagon squeeze?" Also, it's kind of fun as an I/A to learn about these positions. I still remember when I was still in Flight C recognizing a Vienna Coup position. I'd have had quite a story to tell if only one opponent had been guarding both suits. :P

so the question is: Is the Hexagon squeeze really useful, or can it always be executed as a guard squeeze?

Note: I started reading these squeeze articles in search of double/compound squeeze examples. And I think that these double squeezes (...to start with) are useful for me. Not so much for the squeeze position, but to motivate me to be more attentive in the hope that I will recognize the position at the table sometimes.

...as long as that motivation will hold :unsure:

[kgr]

BTW: here is a quick example, you should have no troubles finding the killing lead now:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sh54dajcakt875432&w=skj9hqjt93dq962c6&n=s7532hak86d853cqj&e=saqt864h72dkt74c9&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=7cppp]399|300[/hv]

Thanks

♦Q. (Hope for my motivation that this is right :) )

[GreenMan]

so the question is: Is the Hexagon squeeze really useful, or can it always be executed as a guard squeeze?

 

No idea. I suspect that if you're good enough to recognize a hexagon squeeze positon at the table you're good enough to pull it off without having to refer to book learnin'.

 

Note: I started reading these squeeze articles in search of double/compound squeeze examples. And I think that these double squeezes (...to start with) are useful for me. Not so much for the squeeze position, but to motivate me to be more attentive in the hope that I will recognize the position at the table sometimes.

 

The hard part is recognizing them at the table. I studied squeezes for a while before I started noticing the positions during actual play. I still remember the first one I pulled off on purpose. I've seen a few double squeezes too. For the most part, once you see them they're fairly simple to execute.

 

Compound squeezes seem rare; I've only seen one at the table.

[fromageGB]

Is the Hexagon guarded? Well, the Pentagon is, so I suppose the Hexagon will be, but more so.

[WellSpyder]

Is the Hexagon guarded? Well, the Pentagon is, so I suppose the Hexagon will be, but more so.

Certainly seems likely in the UK, where we have both an MI5 and an MI6.....