Runners

[rogers2011]

I really enjoy BBO and have learned so much. However, one thing I dislike is the ability of a player to leave the table mid-game. Yes, sometimes the phone calls or someone is at the door and the player must leave abruptly. Sometimes a players sees that his/her contract can't be made, or their partner makes a mistake and immediately leaves the table and joins another. I even played with a couple of mean players who raise the bidding to the 6 level without points or distribution then leave the table. Would he/she do this in real bridge when live people? No - how rude and inconsiderate!

I would like to respectfully ask BBO incorporate a routine in the software that would not allow a 'runner' to immediately join another table for 5 minutes (maybe more).

[helene_t]

It is probably a good idea but serious thoughts would have to be paied to how to identify runners automatically. I quite frequently "run" myself, when someone else is stalling. You could probably apply some very conservative criteria that would prevent people from being seen as runners if the player whose turn it is has been stalling for more than 15 seconds, or if someone else at the table has been replaced midhand. Still there would always be a few instances in which someone is unfairly treated as a runner and it is the question if the cure is worse than the disease. I lean to think that it isn't but .....

 

There is already a board completion rate, and other people can mark the runners as enemies.

[billw55]

Agree it is a nuisance. Another example is players who vanish with the message "goodbye - I have left to play a tournament". I get the impression that they are removed automatically when the tourney starts. If so, this is bad design IMO: the software should not outright cause running! Quite the opposite, it should be impossible for a user who is registered in a tournament to start a hand less then (say) ten minutes before the start time.

 

Anyway, nothing really can be done about it. Blacklisting helps, but scoundrels of various types can (and do) just make a new account after they wear out their welcome. I think it would be worth trying a lockout after running, but BBO has more pressing things to work on with their limited resources.

[barmar]

BBO used to have a system that automatically put temporary blocks on players who ran too much (they couldn't play for a day or two, IIRC). I think this was removed when the Board Completion Rate filters were added. I guess it was felt better to put control in the hands of the table hosts, rather than have autocratic blocks across the board.

[Wayne_LV]

There is already a board completion rate, and other people can mark the runners as enemies.

 

Yes and if you are table host you can set parameters for players to join your table. I find a 90% completion rate usually keeps out chronic runners. I think a message in the BBO Today section explaining that if you start a hand on BBO, that hand will be posted to your MyHands record even if you bolt before the hand is completed. You may escape a bad score in your own mind but you don't escape it from those that use MyHands.

 

If you don't set a parameter for hand completion as host, tagging previous runners as enemy does no good. They are allowed to sit and when you realize they are enemy you can either let them play, politely ask them to leave, or boot them and risk being punished for chronically removing players against their will. Yes, BBO does track that too. Any of these actions tends to disrupt the game and may cause hard feelings.

 

I think the software should check before allowing an enemy of the host to be seated at the table. I am not sure what message is sent to a player attempting to sit at a table where their hand completion rate is less than the parameter set by the host, but a similar message could sent to those attempting to sit at a table hosted by someone that considers them to be an enemy for whatever reason.

[Wayne_LV]

Agree it is a nuisance. Another example is players who vanish with the message "goodbye - I have left to play a tournament". I get the impression that they are removed automatically when the tourney starts. If so, this is bad design IMO: the software should not outright cause running! Quite the opposite, it should be impossible for a user who is registered in a tournament to start a hand less then (say) ten minutes before the start time.

 

Anyway, nothing really can be done about it. Blacklisting helps, but scoundrels of various types can (and do) just make a new account after they wear out their welcome. I think it would be worth trying a lockout after running, but BBO has more pressing things to work on with their limited resources.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, but .............. players that play in tournaments should know that playing right up to the time a tournament starts is just plain BAD MANNERS. Perhaps being removed from a game to start a tournament could be recorded and after a reasonable number occurrences, a warning could be sent to the offending player. I am sure it must already affect their hand completion record.

[diana_eva]

...

I think the software should check before allowing an enemy of the host to be seated at the table. I am not sure what message is sent to a player attempting to sit at a table where their hand completion rate is less than the parameter set by the host, but a similar message could sent to those attempting to sit at a table hosted by someone that considers them to be an enemy for whatever reason.

 

Software does check that and if the table has "permission required to join" checked, requests from enemies are discarded automatically.

[Zelandakh]

Out of interest, what is the board completion rate of a new account? It might be interesting to see the effects if every table was created with a CR of 90% of so.

[diana_eva]

Out of interest, what is the board completion rate of a new account? It might be interesting to see the effects if every table was created with a CR of 90% of so.

 

It's "unknown" but takes only 10 boards played to get one.

[Gerardo]

Unknown is treated as zero (actually, -1).

[1eyedjack]

I agree wholeheartedly, but .............. players that play in tournaments should know that playing right up to the time a tournament starts is just plain BAD MANNERS. Perhaps being removed from a game to start a tournament could be recorded and after a reasonable number occurrences, a warning could be sent to the offending player. I am sure it must already affect their hand completion record.

 

+1 to this.

 

Just recently had an occasion new player joining the sole empty slot at my table, and then "left to join a tournament" before the auction was over of the first hand. He must have known that he was about to join and would not have had the time to complete a single hand. OK, you can't legislate against bad manners, but I hope that the "bailing count" is upped when it happens.

[1eyedjack]

Occasionally I see comments from TDs at tourneys advising that on the last hand of the tourney dummy should not leave before the completion of the hand because were they so to do then BBO may mark them up as a "quitter".

 

I should like to know whether the TDs are misinformed in this, but if it is so it is an area of the software that could do with amendment. Never mind the last hand of a tourney, in my opinion a player should be free to leave as soon as he becomes dummy without there being a stain on his character, unless of course he is in a tourney AND it is not the last hand.

[Antrax]

To the best of my knowledge, leaving while you're the dummy hurts your board completion rate. It may have been patched since, though, since I've asked about this over 6 months.

[billw55]

A related question: is there a way to see your own board completion rate?

[Antrax]

You can see it in your profile, under "My BBO" (web client).

[jillybean]

The nature of online bridge allows players to jump in for a few hands and then leave, if they are dummy I don't see a problem with anyone leaving mid hand. Another consideration in online bridge is that life goes on around you, much more so than when you are playing at a club. Important phone calls and other types of interruptions which either wouldn't happen at a club or if you are at the club and did need an emergency washroom break, you can easily say “excuse me for a moment please!” People will know where you've gone and when you are likely to be back, on BBO you will be replaced.

 

This leads me to believe that anytime you are dummy, in any game, you should be allowed to exit with no penalty. Apart from personal emergencies players want to leave when they find they are sitting opposite a partner from hell. Far better to let a player leave a tournament gracefully than have them stay, fighting with partner and bidding 7NXX contracts. There should be a button in all tournaments - "self preservation - remove me from this game"

 

Yes, it can be troublesome at times for hosts to find substitutes. The host may want to reduce the size of the game if finding sufficient substitutes is a common problem. Is there an option for hosts to put GIB in to replace missing players?

 

The real problem are those who skip from one bad contract at one table to another, mid hand when they are not dummy.

[jillybean]

+1 to this.

 

Just recently had an occasion new player joining the sole empty slot at my table, and then "left to join a tournament" before the auction was over of the first hand. He must have known that he was about to join and would not have had the time to complete a single hand. OK, you can't legislate against bad manners, but I hope that the "bailing count" is upped when it happens.

Still bad manners but this sounds like a player who was signed up as a substitute and accepted a sub invite. The software won't let you join a table if you are registered in a tournament starting in x minutes.

[Siegmund]

One really great feature they had at Swan Games was a button you could click at any time during the hand, "stand up automatically before another hand is dealt" - rather than waiting until new cards were dealt / deciding whether to stay or go according to how good your hand was / leaving your opps sitting there staring at a hand their new opp may need redealt.

 

This would also make it easier for people to avoid being 'unintentional runners' - and make me a lot happier about seeing some vigorous enforcement against the frequent runners.

[fourdad]

Yes and if you are table host you can set parameters for players to join your table. I find a 90% completion rate usually keeps out chronic runners. I think a message in the BBO Today section explaining that if you start a hand on BBO, that hand will be posted to your MyHands record even if you bolt before the hand is completed. You may escape a bad score in your own mind but you don't escape it from those that use MyHands.

 

If you don't set a parameter for hand completion as host, tagging previous runners as enemy does no good. They are allowed to sit and when you realize they are enemy you can either let them play, politely ask them to leave, or boot them and risk being punished for chronically removing players against their will. Yes, BBO does track that too. Any of these actions tends to disrupt the game and may cause hard feelings.

 

I think the software should check before allowing an enemy of the host to be seated at the table. I am not sure what message is sent to a player attempting to sit at a table where their hand completion rate is less than the parameter set by the host, but a similar message could sent to those attempting to sit at a table hosted by someone that considers them to be an enemy for whatever reason.

 

WHY NOT REMOVE THE REASON FOR RUNNING IN A TOURNAMENT? People run to avoid bad results. Seems to me that this is easy to do by having the software post the results as if the runner never left. That is, do NOT record the hands as played by the sub. Why should a subs rating go down because they sit in with a bad partner?

[Baronscarp]

Agree it is a nuisance. Another example is players who vanish with the message "goodbye - I have left to play a tournament". I get the impression that they are removed automatically when the tourney starts. If so, this is bad design IMO: the software should not outright cause running! Quite the opposite, it should be impossible for a user who is registered in a tournament to start a hand less then (say) ten minutes before the start time.

 

Anyway, nothing really can be done about it. Blacklisting helps, but scoundrels of various types can (and do) just make a new account after they wear out their welcome. I think it would be worth trying a lockout after running, but BBO has more pressing things to work on with their limited resources.

Agree entirely. 10 minutes may be too much time, but if someone is registered for a tournament, there should be a time frame within which they cannot start a new hand or join a table. 5 minutes seems reasonable to me.

Edited April 8, 2013 by barmar
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