gwnn Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 RHO deals and it goes 1C-1H-x-2H3C-3H-x-4S your agreements say that 4S is keycard for hearts if hearts have been bid and raised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 I must be missing something. If our agreement is keycard, why is this a question? And how could it be natural after the first round of bidding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalldonn Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 your agreements say that 4S is keycard for hearts if hearts have been bid and raised.So is the question, do our agreements fail to exist when partner does something weird? I believe they continue to exist. All the more considering that the alternative meaning makes no sense either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 DNE but I'd take it as natural if it happened 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 RKC, IMO the most liekly scenario is that partner wanted to bid 2C as limit+ but made an error and bid 2H instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 RKC, IMO the most liekly scenario is that partner wanted to bid 2C as limit+ but made an error and bid 2H instead.I think he meant to pull 4♥ and pulled 4♠, but no problem yet, I give him a RKC response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 RKC, IMO the most liekly scenario is that partner wanted to bid 2C as limit+ but made an error and bid 2H instead.Funny, I thought the most likely scenario is that we play transfers in competition and Overcaller forgot. I agree with Justin, this just does not exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Why even answer this when this clearly does not exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellSpyder Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Why even answer this when this clearly does not exist?Presumably because it happened? We all know people do impossible things at times. Maybe there is a UI question lurking in the background? Anyway, I think I would normally pass and assume this is where partner wants to play for some reason which it is not worth me trying to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted February 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 This did happen but there was no UI question :) My partner asked after the hand 'well how else was I going to bid this hand?' (I'm not going to reveal his hand yet if that's OK with everyone). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Ok, lets ask opponents, is double of 3♥ penalty? I think 8 spades and 3 hearts makes very little sense but it is the only thing that has any at all. Bidding 2♥ to follow with keycard has none. BTW: remember to berate partner for this silly kickback he forced me to play and use this hand as an argument to finally drop it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 I can imagine partner, with drool running down his chin and a mad glint in his eye, revealing: ♠KJTxxxxx♥Jxx♦xx♣- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 I wait a bit to see if he wants to correct his mechanical error. Then I pass. Perhaps he was trying to get doubled but bottled it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 I wait a bit to see if he wants to correct his mechanical error. Then I pass. Perhaps he was trying to get doubled but bottled it.Are you allowed to pause for this reason? Is this a variation in tempo that may work to the benefit of our side? It is certainly not unintentional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 I'm responding rkc just to stay out of committee. Breaking our agreement would tend to confirm UI even if only the slightest hitch by pard but if an accident happened we are still allowed to land on our feet by sticking to what's on the convention card. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 it was a jump bid, so you should wait a bit just for that reason. That's allowed and should be sufficient for him to notice his error. Another situation where I wait for an opponent is when RHO has made a bid I suspect is alertable, I'll give LHO a few seconds to alert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 I assume the bidders are flushed with confidence for their RKCB interpretation and are willing to absolve themselves of blame when it inevitably goes wrong. What do you think partner has? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 i don't think 8-3 is so odd. he could probably hazard a guess that 2h wasn't going to be passed out so bid it on the way to 4s lest partner need to judge over 5m. of course this would have its downsides, most obviously that the opps might bid 5m before you got the chance to bid spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalldonn Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 8-3 would not bid 2♥ lol. I mean if I'm really trying to guess what happened, partner saw his hand wrong, like he had xx Qxx xxx KQJxx and then one of his spade x turned out to be the ace of clubs and he had x Qxx xxx AKQJxx, well not that exact hand because of 1♣ and 3♣ but you get the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 8-3 would not bid 2♥ lol. I mean if I'm really trying to guess what happened, partner saw his hand wrong, like he had xx Qxx xxx KQJxx and then one of his spade x turned out to be the ace of clubs and he had x Qxx xxx AKQJxx, well not that exact hand because of 1♣ and 3♣ but you get the idea. Trouble is, that requires one or both opponents psyched and partner missorted. Occam's razor suggests the 8-3 explanation or partner had his hand mis-sorted, since it requires only one comedian. Perhaps he though he was 4333 and now realizes he is 7330. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalldonn Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Trouble is, that requires one or both opponents psyched and partner missorted. Occam's razor suggests the 8-3 explanation, since it requires only one comedian.Two comedians. I include the one who decides his agreement doesn't apply despite having no idea what is going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 OBVIOUSLY it is keycard. An immediate 4♠ would have been the 8 card suit, to play. He bids 2♥ fully expecting the opponents to bid something again, and now, having shown support with a raise in the suit, 4♠ is kickback. I wouldn't even hesitate or blink. Having said that, this is not my kickback rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilKing Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Perhaps knowing what our hand is would help clarify things. Still no actual constructions for the RKCB hand, only theories, the schizo dogwalker being my favourite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalldonn Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Perhaps knowing what our hand is would help clarify things. Still no actual constructions for the RKCB hand, only theories, the schizo dogwalker being my favourite.Partner either saw his hand wrong, pulled the wrong bidding card (was reaching for 2♦ showing a better raise?), saw the auction wrong (thought you had overcalled 1♠ and he was bidding a natural 2♥?), or (if you insist) schizo dog walker. All of those theories allow for almost any hand, and I don't see what we gain by inventing one. My favorite reason thus far for why 4♠ is natural is that he can't have a keycard bid anyway because the opposition bidding makes it impossible. As though you would normally pass a keycard ask because the opponents have bid strongly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 it was a jump bid, so you should wait a bit just for that reason. That's allowed and should be sufficient for him to notice his error.You're on thin ground here. It is the opposition who are supposed to pause. Even if they pass in a split second you should take no longer than your typical tempo. To do otherwise is giving UI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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