lycier Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 [hv=pc=n&s=s875hakqt754d5ck7&w=sq4h83dj762cjt843&n=sakj63h962dat98cq&e=st92hjdkq43ca9652&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1sp2hp4hppp]399|300[/hv] Principle of fast arrival is right?这道题目是：速达原则可否正确？北家直接加叫进局的理由是：我扣除♣Q，变成12p低限了，所以依据速达原则直接进局！南家反对，因为速达原则不能为丢失满贯而不负责任！你如何看待？ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Is North's hand a minimum? Should South stop with a great double fit? Is the slam fine on the spade finesse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnszsun Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 IMO, north hand is not minimum and obviously bad fast arrival because of control in both minor suits.I agree with south's pass because 5level seems not safe.50% slam is acceptable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lycier Posted February 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 I disagree your opinions,mostly we can say that the principle of fast arrival can't be regarded as an excuses for the lost slam,directly bid into game turn out to be a downright irresponsible action!I think the right-style is responder must show his feature of the hand he held as possible,give us a chance to bid up to slam. -------------------------------------------------------Chinese meanings:我是不同意楼上几位的看法。大多数情况下，我们敢说：速达原则不能视为丢失满贯的籍口！而直接进局结果上只能是彻底的不负责任的行动！我认为正确的展开方式是应叫人必须充分展示其持牌特征，请留给我们叫上满贯一个机会！ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sungh Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 北家听到同伴的一声2H后，很乐意成为明手。C单张Q，虽然有浪费的大牌，可是有明手将吃带来的额外赢墩，这样的一手牌，我不想看着是低限牌力，至少是15hcp（12大牌点+3张将牌的单张C）。叫3H表示有3张H支持；15P的估值牌面。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Fast arrival doesn't work opposite an unlimited partner. You take up two levels of bidding space to tell partner what he would have guessed if you had given no information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lycier Posted February 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 Fast arrival doesn't work opposite an unlimited partner. You take up two levels of bidding space to tell partner what he would have guessed if you had given no information.Hi Cascade:I will translate your thread into chinese,I agree your opinion perfectly.Thank you very much. 老外的意见是：速达原则不适合用于非限制性牌力的同伴！如果没有什么可提供的信息，你可以占据两阶叫牌空间告知同伴所想要知道的一切！ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madongjun Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 既然已经建立了逼叫进程，何必急于速达呢，更好的选择是继续描述自己的持牌情况。比如先叫3♦，然后再延迟支持同伴的红心套。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ntmk Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 我觉得各位观点颇有道理，我进一步思考，如果北家的牌换一下，是否仍然可以比照呢？ （1）♠AK963♥962♦A1098♣A (2)♠AQ1063♥962♦A1098♣A (3)♠AJ1063♥962♦AQ98♣A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lycier Posted February 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 请朋友们参看一下我的另一个贴子：心理干扰性加倍，都是速达原则遗留的祸根。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cqwbc Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 我个人认为，2盖一后的速达原则仅适用于低限、牌型差、控制少才是准确的表达。再来看看北家的牌，♠AKJXX是好套且是能提供赢墩来源的套，♣单张♦有A，都不符合使用速达原则。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world7th Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 这牌不能速达，就算没这个cq，也不能速达 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lycier Posted December 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 其实这个专题论述最清楚的莫过于fred。速达原则不是二盖一的组成部分，它仅仅适用于很窄的范围，所以取消速达原则。而我们有些牌例所使用的速达原则，大多可以用延迟性进局加叫表述。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_cat Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 直接叫4H大概是这样的牌：KQXXX XXX KQX QX 这手牌控制这么好，不能简单4H了事，先3H，如果同伴无意越过4H可PASS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbxkh Posted December 23, 2013 Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 速达，我的实践中一般用于低限、均型，持牌没有特征。北家显然不是这个范畴。何况扣除cq废点，计算牌型点，北家也不是低限。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuhuan Posted December 23, 2013 Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 其实这个专题论述最清楚的莫过于fred。速达原则不是二盖一的组成部分，它仅仅适用于很窄的范围，所以取消速达原则。而我们有些牌例所使用的速达原则，大多可以用延迟性进局加叫表述。我对速达原则理解的不深，同伴封局后一般不会再叫。何以延伸二盖一后不用速达原则哪？延迟性进局加叫如何表述哪？取消速达原则那同伴直接叫进局就不是速达了，哪应叫人还会再叫的动力在哪？速达适用很窄的范围，仅适用于低限、牌型差、控制少才是准确的表达，那何谈取消速达原则哪？ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuhuan Posted December 23, 2013 Report Share Posted December 23, 2013 老外的意见是：速达原则不适合用于非限制性牌力的同伴！如果没有什么可提供的信息，你可以占据两阶叫牌空间告知同伴所想要知道的一切！二盖一不是非限制性牌力范围，那么如果同伴表述了二盖一的牌力，开叫人就不能用速达了吗？换句话说即为开叫人如果没有什么可提供的信息，可以用占据两阶的叫牌空间跳叫进局，同伴可以根据自己的牌力牌型再做叫牌处理，那这样说即使你直接跳叫到局也不会为丢贯自责喽？就像心烛老师说的叫牌人要讲好自己牌情牌力的故事，不要遗漏细节这才是每一个牌手应该干的事。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillon561 Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 [hv=pc=n&s=s875hakqt754d5ck7&w=sq4h83dj762cjt843&n=sakj63h962dat98cq&e=st92hjdkq43ca9652&d=n&v=n&b=5&a=1sp2hp4hppp]399|300[/hv] Principle of fast arrival is right?这道题目是：速达原则可否正确？北家直接加叫进局的理由是：我扣除♣Q，变成12p低限了，所以依据速达原则直接进局！南家反对，因为速达原则不能为丢失满贯而不负责任！你如何看待？我来说说桥牌叫牌三原则：一. 主叫原则:谁的牌叫得更清楚,就该由他的同伴主叫,叫到什么水平止应该由同伴决定；二. 速达原则:当你们已经知道最多能打一个什么定约,那就直接叫到它；三. 便宜叫牌原则:在不知道最终定约是什么时,设计的叫品应该满足便宜叫牌原则,因为叫品空间是有限的,如果不是为了特殊的原因,你不能随便浪费叫牌空间。这里说得很清楚了：速达原则是，当你们已经知道最多能打一个什么定约,那就直接叫到它！ 而同伴的2♥盖叫并不表示你们最多只有一个局，它本来就是一个非限制性叫品，只表示一个门槛，而没有屋檐。你若想示弱，表示你没有更多力量，3♥简单加叫就足以表述了，它其实还是一个逼叫。目标在哪里需要进一步探索。除非2♥应叫家在你再叫后觉得没有满的希望时，他4♥封局。所以，这不是速达原则正确与否的问题。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jihonghui Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 我同意 flying_cat 的看法， 速达总是 5332 （flat hand）。但是， 就这副牌，我认为叫3h 还是有商讨的地方。因为2盖1 以后， 首先要澄清自己的主套有几张，是否（有办法）是 6张？有没有其他的套。北能看到的定约 （可能） 3nt ，4h 4s 6d 6h 6s所以， 我 设想叫牌的进程是1s 2h3d 3h4c ----4c 总是对h 的加叫的扣叫， 因为如果是套， 就叫3nt 了。 这个样子， S 能读出北基本上是 5341的型了。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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