Small Slam or Grand?

[Cyberyeti]

OK, but this is a big downside to have the 6 count playing the hand, and the 20 count down as dummy. My method has different downsides - it is a question of choosing your least evil.

It's a fairly rare downside, and an improvement on the (non puppet) system it's derived from.

[Zelandakh]

The (arguably) most popular form on these forums is known as Muppet Stayman. The idea of this is to switch the 3♥ and 3NT responses. Hence

 

2NT - 3♣

==

3♦ = 4 card major, no 5er

3♥ = no 4 or 5 card major

3♠ = 5 spades

3NT = 5 hearts

 

This has the advantage of keeping you lower on the most common hand types. The form that I prefer is

 

2NT - 3♣

==

3♦ = 3-4 spades and/or 4 hearts

3♥ = 5 hearts (3♠ = slam try+ in hearts; 4m = nat)

3♠ = 5 spades (4m = nat; 4♥ = slam try+ in spades)

3NT = <3 spades, <4 hearts

 

 

2NT - 3♣; 3♦

==

3♥ = asks for 4 spades (3♠ = 4 spades, 3NT = <4 spades (then 4m = nat))

3♠ = shows 4 hearts

3NT = 4-4 majors, non-forcing

4♣ = 4-4 or better majors, slam try+

4♦ = 5 spades, 4 hearts

4♥ = 5 clubs, 4 diamonds

4♠ = 5 diamonds, 4 clubs

 

 

2NT - 3♣; 3♦ - 3♥; 3♠

==

4m = nat

4♥ = slam try+ in spades

 

 

The trouble is that neither of these is a N/B convention. You can find out more about both of these methods (and some others that are also good) by searching old threads on the forums. I would personally recommend all N/B players to use simple Stayman over a 2NT opening and to forget about Puppet Stayman altogether.

[Cyberyeti]

The (arguably) most popular form on these forums is known as Muppet Stayman. The idea of this is to switch the 3♥ and 3NT responses. Hence

 

 

2NT - 3♣; 3♦

==

3♥ = asks for 4 spades (3♠ = 4 spades, 3NT = <4 spades (then 4m = nat))

3♠ = shows 4 hearts

3NT = 4-4 majors, non-forcing

4♣ = 4-4 or better majors, slam try+

4♦ = 5 spades, 4 hearts

4♥ = 5 clubs, 4 diamonds

4♠ = 5 diamonds, 4 clubs

 

 

 

The trouble is that neither of these is a N/B convention. You can find out more about both of these methods (and some others that are also good) by searching old threads on the forums. I would personally recommend all N/B players to use simple Stayman over a 2NT opening and to forget about Puppet Stayman altogether.

 

How would you modify this if you didn't need to take care of the 54 minors hands because they were in your 3♠ bid ? This is quite similar to my version (which was home developed off Crowhurst's non puppet enquiry).

[Zelandakh]

You do not really need the 4M bids for anything at all. It was my own idea to use them for minor suit 5-4s, something which I had already adopted in my 1NT Puppet structure. I suppose you might adjust this to 5-3 minors and slam interest, which helps to avoid missing 5-3 minor suit fits when Opener has the 5 card suit. Another possibility might be to keep the same shape but deny slam interest but I imagine it would be difficult to judge when it is good to bypass 3NT. Maybe best would be to bid 22(45) via a 3♠ response, 31(45) via 3♣ and 13(45) using whichever it fits better to. As you have probably guessed, my 3♠ response contains only 5-5 minor and single suited club hands. My feeling is that adding 5-4 minor hands here too is an overload, especially when we can bid them in such a way as to rule out a 5-3 major fit by using a Puppet sequence.

[barsikb]

Thank you to the experts for the discussion. I'll print it out and study.