Wayne_LV Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 [hv=pc=n&n=sakj32hdkqj83ca95&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=pp1sp1np3dp3hp]133|200|What do you bid?[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 3N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maspd Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 My question is "Why did S bid 3 hearts and not 3NT since that seems to be the most logical bid" but of course you are not shown South's hand so you have not been given all the information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Because he has long hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 My question is "Why did S bid 3 hearts and not 3NT since that seems to be the most logical bid" but of course you are not shown South's hand so you have not been given all the information.Welcome aboard. We have forced to game, S knows we are forced to game; beyond the assumption that he has a bunch of hearts, all we need to know is that we don't and we can stop clubs. If partner pulls 3NT to (say) 4D, we will know more about what he is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 My question is "Why did S bid 3 hearts and not 3NT since that seems to be the most logical bid" but of course you are not shown South's hand so you have not been given all the information. Give North ♥Axx and a club void is a good reason. Also North may have a 6th spade and steer us into 4 of them with a sketchy club holding. Meanwhile, 3nt shows what we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 If partner has long ♥, why didn't he preempt ? ( perhaps too strong but not enough to open 1H or perhaps too weak, but enough to respond 1NT. Anyway, 3NT on this hand might be near solid...if he has something like:xK 10 x x x xx x xK Q x ( looking at 2s, 4d, 3c ...not needing a Ht trick ) ... but then he might have bid 3NT himself .- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - We also have seen this type of SJS hand before where a new suit ( 3H here ) is an advance cue for the 2nd suit : ♦ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 3♥ should not be a long suit, as opener has already shown a 5x5x. 3♥ is either(a) stops sufficient for NT, but poor club stops, or(b) control for a diamond slam, with long diamonds. We assume the first, and bid 3NT. If he has the second, he will bid 4♦ and I will ace ask with 4♥. I am not worried about a spade loser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 3♥ should not be a long suit, as opener has already shown a 5x5x. 3♥ is either(a) stops sufficient for NT, but poor club stops, or(b) control for a diamond slam, with long diamonds. We assume the first, and bid 3NT. If he has the second, he will bid 4♦ and I will ace ask with 4♥. I am not worried about a spade loser.What do you do with a 1813 6 count ? Particularly if you play 4♥ as kickback in diamonds over 3♦. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 What do you do with a 1813 6 count ? Particularly if you play 4♥ as kickback in diamonds over 3♦.Would that eight ♥ hand OPEN with a 4H preempt ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Would that eight ♥ hand OPEN with a 4H preempt ?Not necessarily, x, xxxxxxxx, A, Qxx ? or the equivalent 1714 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 What do you do with a 1813 6 count ? Particularly if you play 4♥ as kickback in diamonds over 3♦.Good question! I can't recall having had an 8 card suit in this situation, but would not play 4♥ as ace asking. A hand that can take control of the auction when it has bid an initial 1NT must be a beast so rare as to be impossible. It would need 3 top tricks in the other suits, as well as stuffing in diamonds - no, I don't think so. If such a hand exists, it can advance cue 3♥. So I guess the answer is 3♥ then 4♥ over 3NT, if very weak, or 4♥ over 3♦ with a stronger hand fancying game. So when I said "3♥ should not be a long suit", it should really be "3♥ should not be a long suit unless it is a REALLY long suit". :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Good question! I can't recall having had an 8 card suit in this situation, but would not play 4♥ as ace asking. A hand that can take control of the auction when it has bid an initial 1NT must be a beast so rare as to be impossible. It would need 3 top tricks in the other suits, as well as stuffing in diamonds - no, I don't think so. If such a hand exists, it can advance cue 3♥. So I guess the answer is 3♥ then 4♥ over 3NT, if very weak, or 4♥ over 3♦ with a stronger hand fancying game. So when I said "3♥ should not be a long suit", it should really be "3♥ should not be a long suit unless it is a REALLY long suit". :)Last time the ace ask happened to me it wasn't a passed hand, something like Jx, x, Qxxxxxxx, Ax 1♠-1N-3♦-4♥-4♠-5♦-6♦ partner had AKxxx, Qx, AKxx, Kx or similar. Also is there any reason why 3♦ can't be 5341/5350 where you want to play in hearts opposite 5 or 6 of them ? I really do think 3♥ should be natural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Another thought....With a decent Ht suit, wouldn't a passed hand Respond 2H ??p - 1S2H I hope Wayne takes us out of our misery and posts Responder's hand . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 3NBecause he has long hearts.3NT may just be a good spot since I believe Responder has a ♣ honor or two ... But why does he have long ♥ since, as Dealer, he didn't open a weak 2 or 3, .... and over partner's 1S he couldn't find it in himself to bid 2H as a passed hand . After:p - 1S1NT - 3D3H .... did he all of a sudden wake up to find he has long ♥ ?? All this leads me to believe that 3H is an advance cue for ♦. Heck, 6D might just might be in the picture . Buttttt, we will never know Responder's hand since Li'l Wayne has forgotten about this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 3NT may just be a good spot since I believe Responder has a ♣ honor or two ... But why does he have long ♥ since, as Dealer, he didn't open a weak 2 or 3, .... and over partner's 1S he couldn't find it in himself to bid 2H as a passed hand . After:p - 1S1NT - 3D3H .... did he all of a sudden wake up to find he has long ♥ ?? All this leads me to believe that 3H is an advance cue for ♦. Heck, 6D might just might be in the picture . Buttttt, we will never know Responder's hand since Li'l Wayne has forgotten about this post.I wouldn't put too much stock in this line of reasoning. Regardless of vulnerability, some of us have some relative suit quality for our 1st seat preempts and/or won't do it with high spots scattered in the other suits. Also, some of us don't bid 2/1 by a passed hand just because we have length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 If the initial pass had not happened, ie dealer = West, then it is definitely more interesting. I take North to be either(a) stops sufficient for NT, but poor club stops, or(b) control for a diamond slam, with long diamonds and almost a 2 over 1, or© extremely long hearts, 8+, and will rebid them over 3NTOpener has to rebid 3NT I think, to cater for these, and responder will clarify. In the given bidding, I can't imagine a hand initially passing that would have enough to want to play in a diamond slam or in 4♥, so the only remaining alternative is (a) stops sufficient for NT, but poor or no club stops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 3NT may just be a good spot since I believe Responder has a ♣ honor or two ... But why does he have long ♥ since, as Dealer, he didn't open a weak 2 or 3, .... and over partner's 1S he couldn't find it in himself to bid 2H as a passed hand . After:p - 1S1NT - 3D3H .... did he all of a sudden wake up to find he has long ♥ ?? All this leads me to believe that 3H is an advance cue for ♦. Heck, 6D might just might be in the picture . Buttttt, we will never know Responder's hand since Li'l Wayne has forgotten about this post. By long I meant 5+. I was trying to be vague since not all hands with 5+ hearts would bid 3H but apparently I was confusing. There is a simple answer to why partner didn't bid 2H over 1S, it still shows values even as a passed hand. A 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 count would not bid 2H. Also, not all hands with 6 hearts open a weak 2, as you said the suit might not be great. This depends on your preempting style I guess. You are making this one too complicated, we might have a 5-3 heart fit or a 6-3 heart fit, or no club stopper where a 5-2 heart fit is our best game, that is why 3H is natural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne_LV Posted February 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 [hv=pc=n&s=s8hqj75d642ckq832&n=sakj32hdkqj83ca95&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=pp1sp1np3dp3hp4dp4nppp]266|200[/hv] In our system, 4NT is to play if no trump suit has been agreed upon and 4NT is not a jump bid. 3NT makes and 4NT is -1, thus sparking the disagreement. The swing on the board was 10.53 IMPs. For those wishing to see the traveller, use this link: http://online.bridgebase.com/myhands/hands.php?traveller=M-1357632373-39925671&username=maspd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 3H is silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Thx, Wayne.... for posting both hands . I agree that the 3D-jump may show only 4 cards . And with NO fit for either of Opener's suits, Responder -- with stops in BOTH the unbid AND transportation via the ♦ to Opener's hand -- he should bid the ( usually avoided if possible ) 3NT in these types of auctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Tough hand, 6m is decent, would be very decent with the addition of a seemingly innocuous 10♦ or J♣. One of the rare hands where 3N makes but is potentially outscored in 5♦. I would just bid 3N over 3♦. As an aside, I think the 3♥ bid should be natural because most people don't spend the brainpower to play this sort of sequence as different by passed and unpassed hands, and while it's unlikely partner has a LOT of hearts as a passed hand, it's not unlikely for an unpassed hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne_LV Posted February 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Thx, Wayne.... for posting both hands . NP, glad to oblidge. Sorry it took so long, it is not easy creating the hand diagram and I have been busy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Your partner should indeed have bid 3NT but it is even clearer for you to do so. If your partner pulls this to 4♦ then it is likely that 6♦ will be a good contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 12, 2013 Report Share Posted February 12, 2013 Both should have bid 3NT. 50% blame to your partner and 150% blame to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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