barsikb Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 Dealer: N [hv=pc=n&s=sqhaq93dt986caqjt&n=sakj85hj7dakjc953]133|200[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 To answer this one I need to know a little about what you have been taught but hopefully you can get the gist from an outline. I think the North hand is too good for a 1NT opening and should be treated as 18. So North opens 1♠, South responds 2♣ and now North makes the systemic rebid for 18-19 balanced. In many (most?) systems this will be 2NT. If you have been taught 3NT then this is also fine. The South hand does not fit well but is nonetheless good enough for a slam try now. The logical move towards that is 4NT, which North will pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 1N-2C2S-3N No, I don't get to slam. I'm not going to over-think things. I think the N hand is ok for NT. The spade holding is an upgrade, but the the rest of the hand is neutral or downgrade worthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 1S-2C (we play 2/1 GF)2N-3N (2N = 12-14 or 18-19 balanced, usually 5332, 3N = to play)4N-6N (4N = 18-19, 6N = to play) If north chooses to open this 1N, we'll peter out in 3N on Tyler's auction, which is ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TylerE Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Do we really want to be in 6 here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 Do we really want to be in 6 here? Looks like a lot of chances to me, but I wasn't even making the argument that we should be there. Just saying that I would end up in 6N for better or for worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 I prefer a 1♠ open because it looks more like a spade hand than a NT hand, even if you play 1NT can include a 5 card major. 1♠ - 2♣ (game force playing 2 over 1, not necessarily long clubs)2♦ (waiting bid, so that responder can clarify his hand a little) - 2♥ (useful 4 card suit)2NT (suggests playing in NT) - 3NT (nothing else to say)4NT (slam suggestion) - pass Think of the 4NT as being like a quantitative NT raise, with responder passing on a minimum 13-15 hcp hand, but going 6NT on a 16 count. Or maybe trying 5NT on a 15 count, but here the spade shortage is not going to help opener's hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 I don't understand those who ar able to show 18 with north and then pass with south's hand, 33 combined, and every suit with 4+ cards so no dreadful AQx opposite KJx. You should just go to slam. I would rebid 2NT with north wich shows 15+, then it is a bit messy because south is probably worth no more than 3NT, but north might be worth 4NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 I don't understand those who ar able to show 18 with north and then pass with south's hand, 33 combined, and every suit with 4+ cards so no dreadful AQx opposite KJx. You should just go to slam. I would rebid 2NT with north wich shows 15+, then it is a bit messy because south is probably worth no more than 3NT, but north might be worth 4NT.Agreed. We would bid: 1♠-2♣(10+)2N (GF not always bal, 15+)-3♥(4♥, only 4♣)4N (quant usually 17-bad 19 bal, 3♠ would be spades, 4♠ would ask aces with hearts agreed)-6N (would bid 6♠with 3424 which is still possible) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Why not Fluffy? The hands fit badly and there is no trick source. Since 5332 is often upgraded, 17 is hardly unexpected either. I think doing more than 4NT here would be reckless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cargobeep Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 East's hand [hv=pc=n&e=s432h542dak42c642&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1sp2cp2np3np4np6nppdppp]133|200[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveharty Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Dealer: N[hv=pc=n&s=sqhaq93dt986caqjt&n=sakj85hj7dakjc953]133|200[/hv] East's hand[hv=pc=n&e=s432h542dak42c642&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1sp2cp2np3np4np6nppdppp]133|200[/hv] There sure are a lot of diamond honors in this deck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 There sure are a lot of diamond honors in this deck.What he's saying is that if opening leader had ♦AKxx and partner had the rest of the deck and the same shape, the sequence would be the same and you'd be off ♦AK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manudude03 Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Sure, that could happen, but most people will go middle of the road and bid a 33 combined slam, unless they find that they have 2 losers. 1S-2C2NT-3NT4NT-6NT for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Sure, that could happen, but most people will go middle of the road and bid a 33 combined slam, unless they find that they have 2 losers. 1S-2C2NT-3NT4NT-6NT for me.I don't have a problem with this, but I do feel that I might bid 4♣ on the way over 3N as it could be a good idea to play in clubs, and after this it potentially gets murky, but maybe S just bids 6N. Try xx, AKxx, Qx, AJ108x opposite the original hand for example where 6♣ is a lot better than 6N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 1S-2C (we play 2/1 GF)2N-3N (2N = 12-14 or 18-19 balanced, usually 5332, 3N = to play)4N-6N (4N = 18-19, 6N = to play)How do we give Opener 18-19 when he has only 17 hcp ?? 3NT directly over the 2C! ( GF ) would be the 15-17 picture bid . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 How do we give Opener 18-19 when he has only 17 hcp ?? 3NT directly over the 2C! ( GF ) would be the 15-17 picture bid .Would you open this a 15-17 1N if you did open them with 5M ? I wouldn't, I'd treat it as too good hence showing 18-19. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 How do we give Opener 18-19 when he has only 17 hcp ?? 3NT directly over the 2C! ( GF ) would be the 15-17 picture bid . (a) I think it's worth 18 (honors are prime, we have a nice 5 card suit)(b) I get the added benefit of partner raising spades directly (as opposed to opening this 1N). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barsikb Posted February 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Thank you for all the replies. Sorry, I need to get back to basics on this. 1♠-2♣After that presuming we are not using 2/1 but SAYC, what should opener bid? Isn't 2NT showing less than 15HCP? What would North bid after partner's 2♣ if his hand was AKJ85,87,KJ2,953 in both SAYC and 2/1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Many systems use a repest of Opener's major (2♠ here) as a "bucket" to cover all of the weak hands. That frees up 2NT to be strong and balanced. This is why I was asking what you have been taught. If you play that 2NT is weak and use a 3NT rebid to show a stronger hand then you have to do that instead. It makes little difference here as Responder simply wants to invite slam with 4NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Thank you for all the replies. Sorry, I need to get back to basics on this. 1♠-2♣After that presuming we are not using 2/1 but SAYC, what should opener bid? Isn't 2NT showing less than 15HCP? What would North bid after partner's 2♣ if his hand was AKJ85,87,KJ2,953 in both SAYC and 2/1?Not sure what 1♠-2♣-2N shows in SAYC, if you were referring to my auction, 2N is 15+ because I play a weak no trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barsikb Posted February 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Forgot about NT being possibly weak. I've heard about that style a lot. To me so far 1NT is 15-17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barsikb Posted February 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Zelandakh, isn't it very important to know number of cards in major suit and save same suit rebid for showing 6+ ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 It is but we cannot have everything. For example, if an Opener's rebid of 3♣ is forcing, and it is for most non-Acol systems out there, then we need an alternative rebid for a minimum opening with 5 spades and 4 clubs. The majority of systems use 2♠ for this purpose. Similarly, if the response had been 2♦ instead of 2♣, the only possible rebid for a weak hand with 5 spades and 4 clubs would be 2♠. This illustrates that rebidding spades does not generally promise 6. More than this, since the upper range for the rebid is about 15 and the lower range for Responder is 10, partner will normally bid again giving us another chance to bid and complete the description of our hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Forgot about NT being possibly weak. I've heard about that style a lot. To me so far 1NT is 15-17Weak or strong notrump has lots of side-effects on auctions where 1N is not opened, as does whether you open 1N with a 5 card major-332. To give you a bit of insight into how a system you may not see much works: To a weak notrump Acol player, 1♠-2♦-2♠ just says I have a minimum opener with 5+ spades and without 4 hearts unless I have a lot of spades. So 5(332), 5??4, 6???. If you open 1N with 5332s then you know partner has either or both of a 6th spade and a 4th club. Also if you open 1N with all 5332s, 1♠-2♣-2♠ is categorically 6 of them. The notrump rebids can also be mucked about with as you know partner doesn't have a weak no trump so has extra points or shape when he opens 1 of a suit, so after a 2/1 2N is GF as you've guaranteed 15 opposite 10, so it can be pretty much unlimited and you can use 3N for something else. Some people actually invert 2N/3N to make slam investigation easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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