Pre-balance, and if so how, over 2S

[Mbodell]

[hv=pc=n&s=s4hkjt6dq96caqt65&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=1d(2+%21D%2C%2010-15%20unbal%20OR%2015-17%20bal)p1n(no%204M%2C%20to%20play%20-%20even%20opposite%2017%20bal)ppdp2s]133|200[/hv]

 

Note the 1♦ is 2+♦ and 10-15 unbal OR 15-17 bal.

The 1nt shows no 4M and also is to play even opposite 15-17 bal, can also be lighter than the 6hcp or so it would be in standard as we'll usually strain to respond any time we have more points than diamonds.

[the_clown]

Sry didnt see that we opened 1♦ thats why my vote for X. Having read the explanation I now think 3♣ is clear

[mgoetze]

My values seem pretty horrible sitting under the double. Would strongly consider 3♣ NV but not here.

[Phil]

Tough one, but I'm not letting the opponents play their nine card fit at the two level. I would think 3♣ implies this hand type since I passed 1N?

[Mbodell]

Results:

 

Currently we have 4 votes for 3♣, 1 each for X and pass.

 

Open room: 2♠W= +140

[hv=pc=n&s=s4hkjt6dq96caqt65&w=saj87haq5djt72c73&n=s965h932da53ckj92&e=skqt32h874dk84c84&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=1d(2+%21D%2C%2010-15%20unbal%20OR%2015-17%20bal)p1n(to%20play%20%5Bunless%20partner%20has%20extreme%20shape%5D%20even%20opp%2015-17)ppdp2sppp]399|300[/hv]

Closed room: 3♠W-1 -100

[hv=pc=n&s=s4hkjt6dq96caqt65&w=saj87haq5djt72c73&n=s965h932da53ckj92&e=skqt32h874dk84c84&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=1cd1n2spp3cdp3sppp]399|300[/hv]

 

Imps score -5 for BBOForums. When talking about the hand we later realize N can make this much easier by XX the X. We had no agreement about this, but in discussing it both felt a hand like this (maximal flat 1nt) is what makes sense. Now if partner does have 15-17 balanced we may be able to take them for a number, and on a hand like this that is a shapely distribution partner knows we aren't bust and will have a fit (since we are flat) and will be able to more confidently bid 3♣.

[Mbodell]

I would think 3♣ implies this hand type since I passed 1N?

 

Yes. If you had a lot of shape you can bid over 1nt, but for a pedestrian 5431 shape you could show it with 3♣ (of course you could be either 1=3=4=5 or 1=4=3=5 - with other shapes like (1-2)=5=5 or 1=4=4=4 or 0=4=4=5 you'd have probably done something else either over 1nt or now).

[gnasher]

With 1345 or 1444 you should bid 2NT, to get to the guaranteed 8-card fit. Hence I think 3♣ will always be 3=5 in the minors (or possibly 2425 if that's allowed by your methods).

[Mbodell]

With 1345 or 1444 you should bid 2NT, to get to the guaranteed 8-card fit. Hence I think 3♣ will always be 3=5 in the minors (or possibly 2425 if that's allowed by your methods).

 

Yeah, I think you are probably right. 2=4=2=5 is balanced and will open nt or rebid nt, so if partner has that they have a hand they were counting as 15-17 and that would probably X, but maybe if it is really defense poor they might try 2nt.

[JLOGIC]

You should definitely bid, they have 9 spades. That means at worst partner has 3343 and you have only one 8 card fit, but he will often have 4 clubs and you will even have a 9 card fit also. Even opposite 3343 you want to be bidding. You really cannot pass out 2S with ~half the deck with a stiff small spade knowing partner has at most 3, it is a big error imo.

[han]

Was going to post what JLOGIC wrote. The analysis that north could have doubled may be correct but completely besides the point.