don't bid 5m at mp

[gwnn]

AQTx

x

x

AKJT9xx

 

opp

xx

ATxxxx

Kxx

xx

 

N opens at MP, how do you bid? We found the less-than-inspiring 1C-1D(H); 2S (ostensibly GF)-pass (yes but I only have 1 trick for my p :( :( ) At least some people went down in 6C.

 

By the way how would you play 2S after a small spade lead to the K?

[Zelandakh]

Depends on system. A lot of little old ladies in England would bid something like: 2♣ - 2♦/♥; 3♣ - 3♥ - 3♠ - 3NT, where 2♣ shows 8 tricks in a suit or a big balanced hand. I have to say that Responder's second round pass in your auction must rank up there with other "I want a new partner" bids. They have an ace, a king and a six card major suit and pass partner's game force with 2 card support? Sounds like some serious trust issues.

 

How about 1♣ - 1♥; 1♠ - 1NT; 3♣ - 3♥; 3♠ - 3NT if you want a sensible route to 3NT? Whether North should actually sit for 3NT is another question entirely. It would not surprise me at all if I ended up in 5♣ on these hands.

[the hog]

I don't understand the question. How can anyone possibly pass a gf 2S bid. You even have an Ace and a King. I would be ashamed to post this.

[Mbodell]

The pass was hopefully a brain failure (like I will not force to slam so I'll sign off in game by using this green card - oh wait).

 

1♣-1♥

2♠-3♥

4♣-5♣

 

seems like one possibility.

[Antrax]

1♣-1♥

2♠-2NT (no fit, ♦ stopper. Yes, we don't play Leb over reverses :()

3♣-3♥

3NT-P

[Fluffy]

I don't like 2♠ when values are so soft, and shape is so extreme that I want space.

 

1♣+1♠+3/4♣ is much more descriptive.

 

 

About 2♠, duck the lead, win next, draw second and third round of trumps and run ♣J around

[gwnn]

I don't understand the question. How can anyone possibly pass a gf 2S bid. You even have an Ace and a King. I would be ashamed to post this.

I should probably have refrained from posting our auction but I thought other people might find funny the sight of the contract and the two hands. I certainly did.

[gwnn]

About 2♠, duck the lead, win next, draw second and third round of trumps and run ♣J around

Ah that's a beautiful line, thanks.

[kayin801]

I think this is trickier bidding than is let on, don't think it's at all obvious to get to 5♣. I can't imagine starting any other way than the following (or an equivalent auction)

 

1♣-1♥

1♠-2♥

 

and then how does N evaluate his hand? I think 3♣ as the low road is acceptable if you're terrified of the misfit, 4♣ is reasonable based on playing strength so long as it doesn't promise hearts, and 3♦ as a punt might be a good way to try to reach 3NT by S. Make S's hand K of hearts and KQT of diamonds and he'd bid the same way. 3NT isn't even hopeless on this layout and will often score +430/630 on a diamond lead (though it's obviously down at least 2 when wrong)

[mgoetze]

About 2♠, duck the lead, win next, draw second and third round of trumps and run ♣J around

Might it be better to run the ♣9 to catch LHO with Qxx napping? Well OK, overtricks only count if anyone else is in partscore...

[ArtK78]

I don't understand the question. How can anyone possibly pass a gf 2S bid. You even have an Ace and a King. I would be ashamed to post this.

I should probably have refrained from posting our auction but I thought other people might find funny the sight of the contract and the two hands. I certainly did.

Pardon the hijack, but this brought to mind one of the most peculiar actions that I have ever seen in serious competition.

 

This was about 20 years ago. Life Masters Pairs, first semifinal, last board. My partner and I were playing against a well known husband and wife pair from New York City - not nationally prominent players, but experienced players who were a constant on the tournament scene.

 

LHO opens 1♣ Precision. It goes pass by partner, PASS BY RHO, to me. I don't remember what I held, but it wasn't a hand that was going to step into this auction.

 

My partner makes an opening lead, and my RHO announces that she took a position - she has 8 spades! My initial thought is sure you do. But she then tables a dummy that is 8-2-1-2 with QJ9xxxxx of spades! Declarer proceeds to make 10 tricks in clubs (we may have slipped a trick on defense - who wouldn't?) while 11 tricks are cold in spades. We scored 24 out of 27 matchpoints (three pairs must have found a way to go minus on the hand).

 

So, while the pass of 2♠ on responder's hand in the OP may have been a very silly bid, it pales in comparison to some other actions that I have seen. Most notably this one from the LM Pairs.

 

By the way, kudos to the husband, who didn't say a word when his wife passed 1♣ and then tabled 8 spades.

[barmar]

By the way, kudos to the husband, who didn't say a word when his wife passed 1♣ and then tabled 8 spades.

That's one of the weirdest ways to violate the guideline "Never put an 8-card suit down in dummy".

 

The pairs you lost to probably bid slams.

[JLOGIC]

Jump shifting is too much imo. I would probably bid 1C 1H 1S 2H 3C p

[fromageGB]

1♣ 1♦(hearts), 2♣ 2♥, 2♠ 3♦, 5♣ I think.

 

2♣ is a safe rebid by N as with our style S will not have spades if not intending to bid again. I would like to emphasise the clubs before showing the spades, and don't think it has enough values for a reverse, regardless of the distribution.

[Zelandakh]

I notice that after 1♣ - 1♥; 1♠, pretty much everyone is rebidding 2♥. One of the things I have been taught is that you should only rebid your suit when Opener showed 2 suits if you are prepared to play opposite a singleton unless you have no other good alternative. Here 1NT with Kxx in the unbid suit looks like a great alternative. So could I ask (Justin, kayin, fromage, etc) for the why on choosing 2♥. This is a proper B/I question and the answers will hopefully be useful for many.

[ArtK78]

I notice that after 1♣ - 1♥; 1♠, pretty much everyone is rebidding 2♥. One of the things I have been taught is that you should only rebid your suit when Opener showed 2 suits if you are prepared to play opposite a singleton unless you have no other good alternative. Here 1NT with Kxx in the unbid suit looks like a great alternative. So could I ask (Justin, kayin, fromage, etc) for the why on choosing 2♥. This is a proper B/I question and the answers will hopefully be useful for many.

There is a huge difference between a mediocre 4 card suit and a six-card suit headed by the AT. All that responder promised with the 1♥ call was minimal values and a biddable 4-card heart suit. Rebidding 1NT would not promise anything more in the heart suit - in fact, it would tend to deny a good 5 card suit (as you say, playable opposite a singleton) or a 6 card suit.

 

If responder's next bid is to be passed out, the odds are that responding hand is far more valuable in a heart contract than in a notrump contract. It is worth perhaps 2 tricks in notrump (assuming that you can't make a lot of heart tricks) but is worth at least 4 tricks in a heart contract.

 

In any event, I would want to let my partner know that I have long hearts. I don't want to make the same bid on a 3442 hand as on a 2632 hand.

[mikeh]

I notice that after 1♣ - 1♥; 1♠, pretty much everyone is rebidding 2♥. One of the things I have been taught is that you should only rebid your suit when Opener showed 2 suits if you are prepared to play opposite a singleton unless you have no other good alternative. Here 1NT with Kxx in the unbid suit looks like a great alternative. So could I ask (Justin, kayin, fromage, etc) for the why on choosing 2♥. This is a proper B/I question and the answers will hopefully be useful for many.

 

The first question to ask is whether partner's 1♠ promised shape. For me and many others, it would promise at least 4=5 blacks. In BWS, I understand that it promises at least 4=4 blacks, while for diehard up the line bidders, it may be 4=3=3=3.

 

The less shape is promised by the 1♠ bid the more one stands to benefit from rebidding the 6 card suit. But even if opener promised shape, there is some chance of a 6-3 fit and a decent shot at a 6-2 fit.

 

I think we'd all agree that the odds favour playing in hearts anytime we have an 8 or 9 card fit, especially since in notrump the opps will often be able to establish diamonds fairly quickly and, if partner is passing our 1N or 2♥, the opps will have values and thus entries.

 

But what about 6-1?

 

Our hand is not going to take many tricks playing in 1N when partner has a stiff heart. We cannot possibly establish hearts and run them, even if we can preserve the diamond K as our second diamond stopper. So we can contribute at most 2 tricks to the offence, and we have no fillers or length to help establish long suit winners for partner. Playing 1N will probably develop into a bit of a scramble, with both sides searching for that 7th trick.

 

In hearts, otoh, if the suit breaks reasonably well, we can establish some small hearts as tricks. Alternatively, the black suits may lay in such a way that we can 'elope' with some small trumps by way of ruffing. In addition, if the opps are in a position to run a long suit (it could be diamonds or spades, but unlikely to be clubs if partner has a stiff heart), we can at least try to stop the damage by ruffing and regaining a tempo.

 

So even if one were of the view that partner probably has a stiff heart, there are still reasons to bid 2♥.

 

Make the hand a little stronger, or the hearts weaker, and the arguments change. A stronger hand has more to offer by way of bolstering partner's hand in notrump, and now we might have 7 winners in notrump and be doomed to 6 losers in hearts because of a bad trump break.

 

The weaker hearts would give rise to the risk that the opps could eventually pull trump or arrange to score their trump separately, because we'd lack the ability to pull them ourselves.

 

Of course, every now and then partner tables a 4=0=3=6 with which he had to pass 2♥. Tant pis.

[fromageGB]

So could I ask (Justin, kayin, fromage, etc) for the why on choosing 2♥.

With my Twalsh bidding, opener has not rebid spades but clubs. As responder I know we have a 6-2 fit in clubs and you will agree that there is no way I can rebid NT. It is MP, so I show my 6 card suit rather than passing 2♣.

 

Playing natural methods and a 1♠ opener rebid, 1NT is certainly possible, but I prefer to show a 6 card heart suit, so I think 2♥ is better. Presumably opener can easily have 2 (or 3!) hearts. One fewer heart and one more spade, and I rebid 1NT. If he has 3 hearts with a diamond shortage he should put me back to hearts.

[lexlogan]

AQTx

x

x

AKJT9xx

 

opp

xx

ATxxxx

Kxx

xx

 

N opens at MP, how do you bid?...

1♣-1♥

1♠-2♥

3♣-pass

[kenrexford]

The first question to ask is whether partner's 1♠ promised shape. For me and many others, it would promise at least 4=5 blacks. In BWS, I understand that it promises at least 4=4 blacks, while for diehard up the line bidders, it may be 4=3=3=3.

 

 

I, for one, might even go a slight bit further in assuring real clubs for the 1♠ rebid, as club reality is stronger for me than spade reality, as I might even have three spades and five clubs. E.g., ♠AKx ♥xxx ♦xx ♣AQ10xx. Sure, alternatives seem possible and more traditional, but I live in clubs and spades, with longer clubs.

[Fluffy]

wtf ken? and now tell me that over partner's 1NT you retreat to 2♥ wich doesn't show extras.

 

I play up the line, and I bypass 4 card spades when I have 3 hearts so that partner knows I ahve 2-3 heart support when I bid 1NT. It gives random results but I am happy with it.

[Zelandakh]

Thanks Mike! I have to admit I was assuming at least 5-4 for 1♣ followed by 1♠ and had not even considered the up-the-line people, let alone Ken's style. But your write-up on why this suit is likely to be useless in NT opposite a singleton is just what I was looking for. It reminds me of the arguments for transferring to the major with a similar-looking 5 card major after a 1NT opening that appeared in texts when this idea started to reach the masses.