Another post-preempt problem

[whereagles]

[hv=d=w&v=n&n=sahj9xdjtxxcakjtx&s=skt9xhxxdaxxcq9xx]133|200|Scoring: IMP

West opens 2♥ (weak, could be 5-card)[/hv]

How should N/S manoever after the 2♥ preempt? At table it went

 

West North East South

2♥.......3♣......p....3♠*

p.........4♣ (all pass)

*Artificial, asks for stopper. Usually based on a club fit.

 

This was held to 9 tricks.

 

1) Should North overcall 3♣ straight away or can he afford to pass due to heart lenght?

2) If North overcalls, should South try for game? His support is very mild.

3) If North passes and South doubles 2♥, should North bid a good 3♣ or should he try for game with a cuebid of 3♥? Note that 3♣ shows a fair hand, as a 2NT reply would be Lebenshol with a bad hand.

[inquiry]

This is why people preempt. :-)

 

Question 1. North is marginal for a 3♣ overcall. The main problem is you might miss a diamond fit, and the rebid nightmare you will have if your partner bids 3♠ over your 3♣ bid. So pass with three hearts is an option. Either bid or pass could be right.

 

Question 2. Yes. If partner overcalls 3♣ and you are looking at four card fit to the queen, and an A and K on the side, how can you not try for game?

 

Question 3. I would bid a good 3♣ with most expert partners, because I expect my partner to balance most of the time with hands like this or even slightly worse. With some partners who count their own points when reopening, I would cue-bid.

 

An alternative defense here is Misho's META overcall. Playing META.. north would double (this is not asking for spades).. north could not bid 3♣ as that promises clubs and spades. South would bid 2♠ - denying a heart stopper. Norht could now bid 3♣ - minor one suiter, good, or bid 2NT - as good/bad or scramble (can't be natural here), depending upon your agreement with your parnter. For me, the 2NT is good/bad showing a light initial action, and south would bid 3♣ ending the auction. META overcalls were written up in the australian bridge magazine and described elsewhere in this forum. I think they work pretty well against preempts but don't really like them against one level bids. In fact, I think the work best against 3 level preempts... the double becomes sort of like a thrump double expect partner didn't open.

[Free]

I would bid quite similar: an immediate 3♣, followed by 3♥ asking for stopper, ending in 4♣. However, I wonder if you can't make 10 tricks by some non-standard line of play in ♦s...

[pclayton]

I bid it just like Frederick. The 10♣ makes me overcall 3♣ in spite of the fact I hate my ♥J9x. I think you put too much pressure on pard in the balance seat if you pass hands like this.

 

Some sort of move by south looks right; 3N could very well be the spot. When pard denies the ♥ stop you get a little high.

 

Doesn't look like a horrible result; we might need to manoever a spade ruff to beat 3♥. Even then 4♣ looks like it has some play; lots of chances for endplays and squeezes especially on imperfect defense. And there are some layouts where the hand is flat cold.

[flytoox]

How about 2H-P-P-X-P-3C-All pass? Playing Lebensohl 3C shows extra.

[junyi_zhu]

How about 2H-P-P-X-P-3C-All pass? Playing Lebensohl 3C shows extra.

It's just an insane sequence. 14 HCP guy doesn't bid and 9 HCP balance then 14 HCP guy doesn't force to game. Are you guys really serious on this issue? This original one is jsut a normal sequence and you don't get good luck because opps preempted. It's just like opp opens 3S, you bid 3NT with 18 HCP, down 3! then some come to ask "can you do better". Yes, you can in this hand, but you are a huge loser in a long run if you don't bid 3NT, or if you balance with 9 or 10 count over 2H or if you pass partner's 3C overcall.

[junyi_zhu]

How about 2H-P-P-X-P-3C-All pass? Playing Lebensohl 3C shows extra.

It's just an insane sequence. 14 HCP guy doesn't bid and 9 HCP balance then 14 HCP guy doesn't force to game. Are you guys really serious on this issue? This original one is jsut a normal sequence and you don't get good luck because opps preempted. It's just like opp opens 3S, you bid 3NT with 18 HCP, down 3! then some come to ask "can you do better". Yes, you can in this hand, but you are a huge loser in a long run if you don't bid 3NT, or if you balance with 9 or 10 count over 2H or if you pass partner's 3C overcall.

Bridge is somehow like texas hold'em sometimes. It has short term luck. And you have to accept the fact that you can't always find the best contract, especially when opps preempt, just like opps attack your big blind in late position with 85 unsuited and hit K88 in the flop and you lose some money in this one, that's not the reason you should fold with KQ once your opp raised your big blind. As long as you do the right thing, why do you care about the result of one hand and try to find the sequence to avoid the bad result of that single hand? You would just lose more money. balancing with 9 or 10 HCP and bidding 3C with 14 HCP over partner's reopening is just like folding KQ at bigblind over opp's late raise.

[HeartA]

I agree with Free and Junyi: the sequece is normal. After opp's preemptive, you can't get the prefect contract from time to time. That's what preemptive is for. Even without preemptive, you have to live by some non-makable contracts.

[flytoox]

How about 2H-P-P-X-P-3C-All pass? Playing Lebensohl 3C shows extra.

It's just an insane sequence. 14 HCP guy doesn't bid and 9 HCP balance then 14 HCP guy doesn't force to game. Are you guys really serious on this issue? This original one is jsut a normal sequence and you don't get good luck because opps preempted. It's just like opp opens 3S, you bid 3NT with 18 HCP, down 3! then some come to ask "can you do better". Yes, you can in this hand, but you are a huge loser in a long run if you don't bid 3NT, or if you balance with 9 or 10 count over 2H or if you pass partner's 3C overcall.

Well pass north hand is not unusual, though I admit reopening with south's hand is a bit aggressive.

[inquiry]

How about 2H-P-P-X-P-3C-All pass? Playing Lebensohl 3C shows extra.

It's just an insane sequence. 14 HCP guy doesn't bid and 9 HCP balance then 14 HCP guy doesn't force to game. Are you guys really serious on this issue? This original one is jsut a normal sequence and you don't get good luck because opps preempted. It's just like opp opens 3S, you bid 3NT with 18 HCP, down 3! then some come to ask "can you do better". Yes, you can in this hand, but you are a huge loser in a long run if you don't bid 3NT, or if you balance with 9 or 10 count over 2H or if you pass partner's 3C overcall.

You into one handed bridge. The "14 point' guy hand is not worth 14 points. His spade ace is in a short suit, he has three potential heart losers, three potential diamond losers. If vulnerable I would surely pass, not vulnerable, I would probalby think so long about bidding or passing that I would bid because to pass would place partner in an ethical situation to balance light (skip bid warning time is long enough for me to consider other factors---opponents, state of match -- and choose between pass or bid.. it is very close, not vul).

 

As for the reopening double, it is automatic with this hand. IF your partner is going to reopen. Three clubs does seem a slight underbid, but not by much. Being not vul, that 5♣ seems very far off... however. So I think the auction is far from insane, but it takes north taking not one but two conservative actions. But if he does pass... he will hear a double from me with south's hand.

[whereagles]

I see these are all very close decisions indeed. The kind of stuff that depends more on tactical affairs than technical merit.

 

Just to throw-in some more wood into the fire, have a look at West's hand:

 

♠ Jxxx

♥ AQxxx

♦ Kxx

♣ x

 

The bid is a priori completely wrong: 5-card, bad suit, side major, defensive values. Yet it managed to put N/S into a delicate position. My partner uses to make these bids all the time, and, amazingly, he always comes out of it unscratched.

 

Perhaps there is more to these baby pressure-bids than meets the eye. Indeed, apparently, law-protection (pard's expectancy is 3 trumps) is mightier than hand evaluation :)

[junyi_zhu]

How about 2H-P-P-X-P-3C-All pass? Playing Lebensohl 3C shows extra.

It's just an insane sequence. 14 HCP guy doesn't bid and 9 HCP balance then 14 HCP guy doesn't force to game. Are you guys really serious on this issue? This original one is jsut a normal sequence and you don't get good luck because opps preempted. It's just like opp opens 3S, you bid 3NT with 18 HCP, down 3! then some come to ask "can you do better". Yes, you can in this hand, but you are a huge loser in a long run if you don't bid 3NT, or if you balance with 9 or 10 count over 2H or if you pass partner's 3C overcall.

You into one handed bridge. The "14 point' guy hand is not worth 14 points. His spade ace is in a short suit, he has three potential heart losers, three potential diamond losers. If vulnerable I would surely pass, not vulnerable, I would probalby think so long about bidding or passing that I would bid because to pass would place partner in an ethical situation to balance light (skip bid warning time is long enough for me to consider other factors---opponents, state of match -- and choose between pass or bid.. it is very close, not vul).

 

As for the reopening double, it is automatic with this hand. IF your partner is going to reopen. Three clubs does seem a slight underbid, but not by much. Being not vul, that 5♣ seems very far off... however. So I think the auction is far from insane, but it takes north taking not one but two conservative actions. But if he does pass... he will hear a double from me with south's hand.

Ok, you want a 12-13 HCP reopener to bid something over your 3C to avoid missing a cold game(can be a cold slam facing: SJxxx HA DAQxx CQxxx). Man, it's just not bridge.

[Fluffy]

I can't see any sensible bid to stop below 4♣.

 

I wouldn´t bid 3♣ with north´s hands, the stiff Ace and the Jacks makes it a poor hand, it really needs a 6th club to overcall.

 

South may pass 2♥, althou I don´t like it, I think its the only way to come to a plus score here :(.

 

After doubling North is going to gt to the 4 level, I can´t see a reason why not to do.

[Chamaco]

2H-p-p-Dbl

p-3C(*)-- all pass

 

3C(*) = Lebensohl = close to opening hand values (may be a minimum opener unsuited for immediate action), strongly invitational, if balancer has a full opener he'll look for 3NT or invite game in a minor.

Weaker hands would bid 2S or 2NT Lebensohl relay followed by pass/correct.

[inquiry]

Ok, you want a 12-13 HCP reopener to bid something over your 3C to avoid missing a cold game(can be a cold slam facing: SJxxx HA DAQxx CQxxx). Man, it's just not bridge.

Mauro has it right. If you pass with north's hand you are pretty much counting on south to protect you in the auction if he has shape and some modest value. By modest value, we mean pretty much what he has right here. His balancing double is already (or probably already) counting on you for most if not all of your points.

 

I can imagine the auction going exactly 2H-P-P-X; P-3C-all pass at quite a few tables, especially at matchpoints or imps not vul. And contrary to your view that this is not bridge, this is hard fought competitive bridge.

[Guest Jlall]

i agree with junyi 100 %. All i'd like to add is that many many people on these forums seem to look at both hands, figure out the correct contract, and work backwards to find an auction to get there. This is not right, and it is why questions of this type serve no purpose on these forums. if you instead made it a poll.. 2H p p X p and you only see the problem hand, im sure there would be a unanimous 3H bid. The close decision on this hand was whether or not to overcall.