straube Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 You are South and 3rd seat. All white. IMPs. Uncontested auction .............62.............83.............A43.............KQT876T753....................J98AT6......................J72962......................KQT85953......................J4.............AKQ4.............KQ954.............J7.............A2 Outcomes 3N N Meckwell Light PH (would preempt N)3N S SCREAM 3/43N N Polish Club (would preempt N)3N S IMPrecision (would preempt N)3N N relknes3N S New Big Club3N S Silent Club3N S OCP3N S TOSR 3N N (Precision by Free opens 2C North)3N N (Moscito opens 2C North)4N N (Jasmine Club opens 1D North) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 1C 1H (strong, 8-11)2H 3C (natural, 6 card suit)3S 3N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straube Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 You are South and 3rd seat. All white. IMPs. Uncontested auction ...........62...........83...........A43...........KQT876?......................??......................??......................??......................?...........AKQ4...........KQ954...........J7...........A2 We use our 3rd/4th structure here... ........P1C-1S 16+, GF, various with minors1N-2H asking, single-suited clubs2S-3C asking, a 6C3223N We don't have space to sort out which 3-cd fragment responder might have so we've got potential to miss a 5-3 heart fit with diamonds wide open. We get lucky here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Apologies, missed that north was the dealer. I would probably open 3C as north lol. But assuming a pass: 1C 2C (16+, GF with 6+ clubs)2H 3C3S 3N Alternatively north might rebid 2N, but his hand is so anti positional I think 3C is better. FWIW I think I might play different passed hand structures than normal MW lite pairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonylee Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Polish, assuming a pass (not by me) in first seat: P; 1♣-2♣ (9-11 good suit); 2♥-3♣; 3♠-3N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Lots of choices on this hand... Realistically: 3♣ - 3♥3NT - Pass If you force me to pass in first chair, responder has a choice. I honestly think I would reverse relay this hand: Pass - 1♣ (strong)1♦ - 1♥ (weak or GF, natural or big balanced)1NT - 2♥ (GF relay, majors)2♠ - 3♦ (relay, 4522)3NT - Pass (opener can pull with serious extras) Looking at the responder hand, we have no singletons in either hand and the fit is not great, so we will need a lot for slam to be on. In particular opener seems to need 13+ RP. Even if responder relays and gets 4♣ (twelve RP) he can sign off in 4NT with a great degree of safety on the real hand. If you force me to pass in first chair and then also force me to not reverse relay: Pass - 1♣ (strong)2NT - 3♣ (semi-balanced with 6♣, relay)3NT - Pass (2236 with 5-6 RP, still not enough) We do have some stopper asks available over 2NT but I think only major suits (3♦ is club shortage relay, 3♥/3♠ are stopper asks in the majors). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straube Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Yeah, I thought there'd be some quibbling about not preempting the North hand. I thought it had too much potential to preempt, but accept the problem if you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relknes Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 You are South and 3rd seat. All white. IMPs. Uncontested auction ...........62...........83...........A43...........KQT876?......................??......................??......................??......................?...........AKQ4...........KQ954...........J7...........A2 I'll be curious to see if any relayers can check for a diamond stopper. 1♣ - 2♣2♥ - 3♣3♠ - 3NP Translation:S: 16+, N: 9+ points, 5+ clubs, unbalancedS: 4+, N: 6+ clubsS: 5+ hearts, 4+ spades, 19+ points, N: diamonds stopped, 0-3 controlsS: lets play 3N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilver Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Hilversumse Klaveren (HK) Pass - 1♣ 1♦ -1♥2♣ - 2♠3♣ - 3♦3NT Explanation:1♣ = 16+1♦ = relay1♥ = 5+-card ♥2♣ = GF relay2♠ = 4-card ♠, no 4-card ♦ or 6+-card ♥3♣ = natural, 5+ card ♣3♦ = 4th suit, asking for a stopper in ♦3NT = stopper in ♦ Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 MOSCITO auction 2♣ - 2♦ 2♣ = 6+ Clubs2N - 3♣ 2N = Single suited, 6322 3♦ - 3♥ 3D = 2=2=3=6 shape3♠ - 3N 3S = 6 QPs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akhare Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Yeah, I thought there'd be some quibbling about not preempting the North hand. I thought it had too much potential to preempt, but accept the problem if you can.In real life, this hand will either open 2♣ or 3♣. P wouldn't be an option for me with the minor suit holding... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akhare Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Lots of choices on this hand... Realistically: 3♣ - 3♥3NT - Pass If you force me to pass in first chair, responder has a choice. I honestly think I would reverse relay this hand: On a related note, how do IMP responses to 3rd and 4th seat 1♣ openings work? Are responses except 1♦ pretty much limited to 2-4 RPs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 On a related note, how do IMP responses to 3rd and 4th seat 1♣ openings work? Are responses except 1♦ pretty much limited to 2-4 RPs? Third and fourth seat responses are the same as first and second. This is an advantage to playing a method where direct semi-positives are shown in all seats! There is an inference that the 1♦ response is either weak or balanced GF (because most 7+RP hands would open). I wouldn't open any of the following hands and they would all make non-1♦ bids if partner opens 1♣: ♠Axxx ♥xxx ♦x ♣Axxxx♠KQx ♥x ♦Axx ♣xxxxxx♠KJxx ♥AJxx ♦x ♣xxxx♠Qxxxx ♥K ♦Axxx ♣xxx♠Axxx ♥Q ♦xxxx ♣Axxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akhare Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 Third and fourth seat responses are the same as first and second. This is an advantage to playing a method where direct semi-positives are shown in all seats! Yes -- the consistency is really nice indeed. Since SP responses ostensibly don't create a force, how is fourth hand intervention handled? Are opener's new suits forcing for one round and is the first X by either hand for takeout? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbforster Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 Silent Club: P-1♣ agree with pass; strong1♠-1N bal or ♣, usually GF; relay2♣-2♦ clubs usually GF; relay2N-3♣ "short" hearts and GF values; relay3♥-3N 2236; bit heavy but signing offP ....not enough to show extras we can't open 2♣ here by North (the "silent" club method) and would not preempt. The main choice here is whether opener is good enough after finding out about no heart fit to try harder for slam in clubs, and if so, how. I think my above auction is probably the most likely, where opener asks for shape first (since responder can be 3235 in which case 3N is clear). Then, having found a club fit but only 6-2, then the decision is whether to ask for strength with 3♠ optimistically (which forces us to 4N when responder has 7 QP), or bid 3N with the knowledge that responder will bid on with 9 QP. While the right 8 QP will be enough (AK♦, KC♣), I think most good slams will have more and so took the low road with 3N. Another option would be to break relay after 2N and ask for strength with 3♦, letting us stay lower opposite 7QP. Of course this approach won't tell us the club length/fit, which seems a more likely source of tricks for a light slam. We're getting to slam opposite 9QP anyway, so it's just a question of how the middle range goes handled since opener has a little extra but not that much. Our 2N bid excludes (321)7 shapes however, so its not that bad to ask values here since a 7 card suit is pretty unlikely (only 3037). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petterb Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 FWIW I think I might play different passed hand structures than normal MW lite pairs.What is your passed hand structure, and what is the normal MW Lite passed hand structure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM75 Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 OCPp - 1♣2♣ - 2♦ asking2N - 3♣ 3 controls (passed hand) majors?3D - 3N - none Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 What is your passed hand structure, and what is the normal MW Lite passed hand structure? I just play 2C/2D=6 card suits, 1S/1N=5 card suits (1N=hearts), and 2H=4441. I am not sure what the normal MW lite passed hand structure is, when I started to play the system I didn't like what was in the notes so changed to that. I am sure it has changed in the last 6 years or w/e also, so it might be different now than what I read in the notes back then, jdonn would be a good person to ask since he only started playing it somewhat recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted January 19, 2013 Report Share Posted January 19, 2013 I'd probably bid:2♣-2♦ (~10-15HCP, 6+♣ ; relay)3♣-3NT (min ; signoff)pass If North decides the hand is too weak for 2♣, then he'll open 3♣. The auction in that case:3♣-3♥3NT?-passSince opener has a stopper in one of the unbid suits, I think he's allowed to bid 3NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1 Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 #09. You are South and 3rd seat. All white. IMPs. Uncontested auction Not an easy hand for Jasmine Club. :) On a good day we might bid: :)North ♠ 62 ♥ 83 ♦ A43 ♣ KQT876: 1♦ 2♣ 3♣ 3NSouth ♠ AKQ4 ♥ KQ954 ♦ J7 ♣ A2: 1♥ 2♠ 3♦ 4N1♦ = 8-15. Rule of 18.. 4+m (3♣ is an alternative but not Pass).1♥ = Nat.2♣ = Nat.2♠ = Nat.3♣ = Nat.3♦ = 4SF.3N = Nat.4N = Nat But We might reach 6♣ on a bad day :(If South were dealer, we might struggle to 3N.North ♠ 62 ♥ 83 ♦ A43 ♣ KQT876: __ 2♣ 3♦ 3NSouth ♠ AKQ4 ♥ KQ954 ♦ J7 ♣ A2: 1♣ 2♥ 3♠1♣ = Art, 16+.2♣ = Art, 8+, No 4+ M.2♥ = Nat.3♦ = Art 5+ ♣.3♠ = Stop.3N = Nat.Marks, IMO: 3N = 10. 4N = 8. 4♥/5♣ = 6. Partscores = 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegmund Posted January 20, 2013 Report Share Posted January 20, 2013 Hard for me to imagine north passing. Either it's a 3C preempt or a 10-15 2C bid in most these systems. Over 3C, I play 3D asking for 3CM, and finding none, we will subside. If North stretches to 2C (6 clubs no 4CM, in Unassuming or Malfoir):2C-2D(transfer)2H-2S (tolerance not enthusiasm / natural F)2NT-4NT (natural, D stop / quant) is possible, but so is South getting excited and plowing on to 6C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted January 21, 2013 Report Share Posted January 21, 2013 Under your conditions of no preempt from North, this is an easy hand. P... - 1♣ = 15+ nat/bal or 18+ any1♠ = no 4+ major, GF... - 1NT = relay, usually 18+2♦ = 6+ clubs, no side suit... - 2♥ = relay3♣ = 6-7 clubs, <3 hearts, <3 spades, 3 diamonds... - 3♥ = asks for diamond stop3NT Note that if North had, say, the ♥A instead of the ♦A, 3NT would not be the final contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 I made a serious mistake in my auction. After 3♥, North should bid 3♠ to show a diamond stop and no spade stop. Then South bids 3NT. North is allowed to bid 3NT with a positional diamond stop (and no spade stop) when NT has not been bid but here, with ♦A43 and ♠62, it is a complete no-brainer to bid 3♠ and 3NT is simply a bad bid. Bad enough for me to be completely embarassed about writing it. Anyway, it makes no difference to the final contract on this hand but it goes to show that I need to pay more attention even on the apparently easy hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbodell Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 3nt S (tosr based system) P-1♣ : <10; art forcing 16+2♦-2♥ : art, gf, 8+ hcp, 2+ ctls, 5+♣ in single suited hand; relay3♣-3♦ : some 6322 shape (or occasionally 8311); relay3♥-3nt : 2=2=3=6; to play Partner considered opening both 2♣ or 3♣ but wisely passed. I find 2♣ is a wide enough range at 10-15, I don't know we want to do it with even a pure good 9 like this. I like it better as average 10 to average 15 and downgrade the bad 10 and upgrade the good 15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qplus10 Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 1♣1nt (2c and 1nt had the same value at imps split with the mp score as usual)2nt 3nt. well here we are in 3nt as usual. Having read what others wrote I went back to norths hand which I had simply entered pass for. Having run the sim he opens3♣(0.7 imps better than pass)4nt rkcb5♠6♣ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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