Deal #6

[relknes]

The reason that I picked a 1♣ opening here is that oposite as little as

 

Qxxx

Qxx

Jxx

xxx

 

I want to be in game, but I don't have any methods that would let me find it, since I expect partner would pass with stronger hands than this. I realize that interference can make life difficult over a 1♣ opener, but if I thought that was a convincing argument not to open 1♣ I wouldn't be playing a strong club system. As it is, I prefer to limit my 1M bids to 5 losers so that hands with a few stray quacks don't have to worry about missing game.

[akhare]

I understand tactical considerations and those who have 1H-1N, 3D available to show a maximum 5H/5D may do better to opt the route of 1H. For us, this shows a good 6H/5D hand so we are stuck rebidding 2D which could be something as meager as x AQxxx Axxx xxx. I.e. there's a danger for us in having too wide a range for our 1H opening.

 

(9)10-15 hardly strikes me as being a wide range. While there's some merit in having 2N to show 6H with 5 of a minor, reserving two 3♣/3♦ to show 6m5♥, comes across as wasteful.

 

In terms of sheer frequency, it's much better to use those bids to show hands that don't want to rebid 2♣ / 2♦ over 1♥ - 1N.

[relknes]

(9)10-15 hardly strikes me as being a wide range. While there's some merit in having 2N to show 6H with 5 of a minor, reserving two 3♣/3♦ to show 6m5♥, comes across as wasteful.

 

In terms of sheer frequency, it's much better to use those bids to show hands that don't want to rebid 2♣ / 2♦ over 1♥ - 1N.

 

That depends on how you define range, and how you are counting your points. Two hands of 10 HCP each can have vastly different playing strength.

 

Axxxx

KQJxx

xx

x

 

is a much stronger hand than:

 

Axx

xxxx

Kxx

QJx

 

The first has 6 losers and the second has 9, despite both of them having 10HCP. The first is a clear 1♠ opener for us, while the second is a clear pass. These are not even that extreem of examples; both are hand you might expect to see if you play an evening of bridge.

If hands that you bid 1♥-1N-2♦ include hands that have aywhere from, say, 4-8 losers, then that is a wide range in my opinion.

I do agree with you, however, that reserving 1♥-1N-3m for 6-5 hands is not the most efficient use of space. For us, that sequence means a two suited hand with 14-15 HCP and 5 losers that doesn't have both of the other suits stopped (so, a hand like the one in the OP if the ♦6 had been the ♠6), which also might not be the best but seems to make life easier. Of course this may also be influenced by the fact that a 1N response in our system is non-forcing, easing pressure on the 1M-1N-2m sequences.

[akhare]

That depends on how you define range, and how you are counting your points. Two hands of 10 HCP each can have vastly different playing strength.

 

Axxxx

KQJxx

xx

x

 

is a much stronger hand than:

 

Axx

xxxx

Kxx

QJx

 

The first has 6 losers and the second has 9, despite both of them having 10HCP. The first is a clear 1♠ opener for us, while the second is a clear pass.

 

Completely agree -- we too would pass the second hand and open the first.

 

If hands that you bid 1♥-1N-2♦ include hands that have aywhere from, say, 4-8 losers, then that is a wide range in my opinion.

 

Yup -- the 1N isn't forcing for us either and so the rebid of 2m always shows a unbalanced hand with 4+m.

 

One can argue that it probably isn't such a big problem and that opener can always rebid the minor to show the extra playing strength after responder corrects to 2M, but it's something to think about.

[straube]

 

Yup -- the 1N isn't forcing for us either and so the rebid of 2m always shows a unbalanced hand with 4+m.

 

One can argue that it probably isn't such a big problem and that opener can always rebid the minor to show the extra playing strength after responder corrects to 2M, but it's something to think about.

 

Sorry to get too far off topic, but if we use jump rebids of 2N and 3m to distinguish goodish 6/5s from goodish 5/6s then we have..

 

1H-1N,

2D-2H,

2N

 

to show a maximum 5/5 (not that we'll play there often but we might)

 

and

 

1H-1N,

2D-2H,

3D

 

to show a poor 5H/6D

 

I imagine we'll categorize a 6/5 as good probably 2/3rds of the time, but there are those other.

[FM75]

1H 2H

4H

 

 

 

[mycroft]

I'm going to bid (in fairly basic Precision-with-asking-bids) 1♥-2♥; 4♥. Enjoy leading. Exactly because if I don't get a raise, 3♦ perfectly describes my hand (good 14-15, 5-5). I would only upgrade 15s into 1♣ if I worry about showing them if I don't, and I don't here.

 

If I do open it 1♣, it will go:

 

1♣-1♠ [club GF] - (X, I assume)

2♥-(pass by OP fiat)- 2♠ [NAT; <3 controls, <Qxx hearts]; alternatively (2♠) - X [same explanations]

3♦-3♥ [all NAT after negative response]

4♥-p.

 

[Which goes into "Enjoy leading" as to why I don't want a strong club auction]

[Siegmund]

Happy to see Leaping Michaels getting some love. I have experimented off and on with using otherwise idle jump shifts to take pressure off the strong rebids since the 90s, though no solution is exactly perfect.

[Hilver]

By your own system, I think you have a 2H raise. Responder has Q93 J97 T5 AQ954 which is actually less than 10-11 and only three hearts. I assume you upgraded it to 10-11 but it can't be worth a limit raise.

 

Indeed, it is close to a 2♥ response.

 

In HK the structure after opening 1M is:

2M = 10-11 HCP, 3-card support. The advantage is that responder isn't obliged to make a limit raise to 3M. With a bare minimum opener can pass. With a good 13 HCP opner can make a help suit.

 

2NT = 10-11 HCP and 4+-card support. Opener can describe his holding. You are still able to play 3M.

 

3M = weak, preemptive.

 

So we do have some problems in HK with the actual deal. In HK we decided that hands as in this bidding problem, are bid as I mentioned. The reason is that we don't want to miss a vulnerable game in teams.

 

Jan

[straube]

Indeed, it is close to a 2♥ response.

 

In HK the structure after opening 1M is:

2M = 10-11 HCP, 3-card support. The advantage is that responder isn't obliged to make a limit raise to 3M. With a bare minimum opener can pass. With a good 13 HCP opner can make a help suit.

 

2NT = 10-11 HCP and 4+-card support. Opener can describe his holding. You are still able to play 3M.

 

3M = weak, preemptive.

 

So we do have some problems in HK with the actual deal. In HK we decided that hands as in this bidding problem, are bid as I mentioned. The reason is that we don't want to miss a vulnerable game in teams.

 

Jan

 

So 1H-2H is stronger than 1H-1N, 2m-3H. It seems you'd be safer switching these around, but perhaps you want to announce the better hand first before it gets lost in competition. I'd still switch their meanings around, but I hope you don't mind the suggestion.

[Hilver]

So 1H-2H is stronger than 1H-1N, 2m-3H. It seems you'd be safer switching these around, but perhaps you want to announce the better hand first before it gets lost in competition. I'd still switch their meanings around, but I hope you don't mind the suggestion.

 

I do welcome your suggestion.

We do use these agreements for several years now. No problem untill now :rolleyes:

 

Jan

[Free]

We do use these agreements for several years now. No problem untill now :rolleyes:

I don't claim the suggestion is an improvement, it's much more complex than that. However, I've heard that excuse many times and I always wonder: why is this relevant?

 

Suppose you have a theoretical improvement at minimum cost, why wouldn't you make the change? If you don't make the change, some day, sooner or later, you'll get that hand where it poses a problem. Maybe then you'll want to change the system, maybe not. But why wait anyway? If you change it now, you'll have 1 more good deal.

[straube]

I don't claim the suggestion is an improvement, it's much more complex than that. However, I've heard that excuse many times and I always wonder: why is this relevant?

 

Suppose you have a theoretical improvement at minimum cost, why wouldn't you make the change? If you don't make the change, some day, sooner or later, you'll get that hand where it poses a problem. Maybe then you'll want to change the system, maybe not. But why wait anyway? If you change it now, you'll have 1 more good deal.

 

Yeah, but he didn't say he wouldn't change it. He just received the suggestion and probably has to decide if it's a priority for discussing with his partner. We make lots of changes to our system but we also have to weigh whether it's a sufficient gain for the memory load.

[Free]

1H S Zelandakh (1H opening

This can't be right

[nige1]

#06. You are South and 2nd seat. Favorable vulnerability. Scoring is imps. Dealer passes. I think South's hand qualifies in most strong club systems for a 1C opening, but make your normal opening. If possible your RHO will overcall 1S. If possible your LHO will raise to 2S unless responder establishes a game force AND the 2S bid takes up no room. For example, if the auction goes P 1C P 1D* (1S) 2H he will pass.

Jasmine Club

North ♠ K2 ♥ AK854 ♦ KQ976 ♣ T: 1♣ 2♥ 4♦

Aouth ♠ Q93 ♥ J97 ♦ T5 ♣ AQ954: 2♣ 3♥ 4♥

• 1♣ = 16+.
• 2♣ = 8+, No 4 M.
  
• 2♥ = Nat.
• 3♥ = Nat.
• 3♠ = Key-ask.
• 4♣ = 1/4.
• 4♥ = Nat.

Marks, IMO: 4♥ = 10. Partscores = 8. 3N = 5.

[Mbodell]

4♥S (tosr based system)

 

1♣-2♦ : forcing, art, 16+; gf, 8+ hcp, 2+ ctls, 5+♣ in single suited hand

2♥-3♦ : relay; 3=3=2=5

3♥-3♠ : relay; 2 controls

4♦-4♥ : puppet to 4♥ to sign off; near forced response

P : the suit to sign off in was hearts.

[qplus10]

1♥2♥4♥

[jack502]

1♣1♥(1♠)

2♥(2♠)4♥

 

 

 

1♥=semi positive bal,4441 or unbal no 5 card major.

[mr1303]

Sorry, another vote for 1H 2H 4H

[benlessard]

-------1C--1D (H or pts)

(1S)--2H----4H (15-17 with 5+H)

[Lord Molyb]

Molybdenum Forcing Pass System:

S ---- N

P --- 1♣ (opening, not yet GF)

1♥ --- 2♣ (15-18 any, specifically not GF but could be invitational with clubs)

2♥ --- 2NT (4+ hearts, invite with balanced hand)

3♦ --- 3♥ (5-5 in red suits or 5-4 with accepting invite, 3 hearts)

4♥ --- P (signoff)

 

My system is weird... -_-

 

Oh, didn't notice that east will bid one spade. Then

S ---- N

P --- 1♣ (1♠) (explained above)

dbl (2♠)--- 3♣ (4+ hearts, 4+ clubs/ 8+ points)

3♦ --- 3♥ (5-4 in red suits or better and usually 13+, 3 hearts and 8-9 points)

4♥ --- P (signoff)

[CamHenry]

Unnamed Homebrew Diamond

This South hand is an absolute minimum, but the fact we've got 6-7 CPs makes it tempting to open 1♦. I'll give both auctions:

1♦-1♠ 16+, excluding GF / 8+ almost any

2♠-2N Single-suited ♣ OR short ♠ OR both reds / relay

3♦-3♥ Both reds, ♥ not longer / suit preference

4♣-4♥ 4,6 or (since we're playing ♥) 7 CPs / signoff

 

If South decides to open 1♥:

1♥-1♠ 10-15, 4+ ♥, possible longer minor / forcing enquiry (typically denies 4♥)

3♦-4♥ Maximum (could be a little worse), 5+♥, 4+♦, ♦ could be longer / To play

[Kungsgeten]

You are South and 2nd seat. Favorable vulnerability. Scoring is imps. Dealer passes. I think South's hand qualifies in most strong club systems for a 1C opening, but make your normal opening. If possible your RHO will overcall 1S. If possible your LHO will raise to 2S unless responder establishes a game force AND the 2S bid takes up no room. For example, if the auction goes P 1C P 1D* (1S) 2H he will pass.

 

 

.................Q93

.................J97

.................T5

.................AQ954

654.............................AJT87

Q62.............................T3

AJ2..............................843

J762............................K83

.................K2

.................AK854

.................KQ976

.................T

 

Pass 2000

 

1C - 1NT; (12-16 unbal / 15-17 bal -- 8-11 bal, no 5 card major)

2D - 2H; (transfer, may be 4 hearts if INV -- the usual bid)

3D - 4H; (natural GF -- to play)

[PrecisionL]

Upgraded Ultra Club Relay (C3)

 

- 1♣ - 2♦ = balanced and 8-10 hcp

- 2♥ = SAB - 2NT = 3+♥ & 1-2 Controls

- 4♥ All pass