Deal #6

[straube]

You are South and 2nd seat. Favorable vulnerability. Scoring is imps. Dealer passes. I think South's hand qualifies in most strong club systems for a 1C opening, but make your normal opening. If possible your RHO will overcall 1S. If possible your LHO will raise to 2S unless responder establishes a game force AND the 2S bid takes up no room. For example, if the auction goes P 1C P 1D* (1S) 2H he will pass.

 

 

.................Q93

.................J97

.................T5

.................AQ954

654.............................AJT87

Q62.............................T3

AJ2..............................843

J762............................K83

.................K2

.................AK854

.................KQ976

.................T

 

Outcomes

 

4H S SCREAM

4H S Relknes

4H S Moscito

4H S Jasmine Club

4H S TOSR

 

4H S OC Precision (1H opening)

4H S New Big Club (1H opening)

4H S Zelandakh (1H opening

4H S Unassuming Club (1H opening)

4H S Silent Club (1H opening)

4H S IMPrecision (1H opening)

4H S Polish Club (1H opening)

4H S Precision by Free (1H opening)

4H S Meckwell Light (1H opening)

4H S chasetb (1H opening)

4H S thehog (1H opening)

[straube]

 

.................Q93

.................J97

.................T5

.................AQ954

654.............................AJT87

Q62.............................T3

AJ2..............................843

J762............................K83

.................K2

.................AK854

.................KQ976

.................T

 

 

SCREAM bids this...

 

1C-1D (1S) 16+, GF bal OR unbal w/ major (overcall)

2S-2N 5H/5D, ask

3H-4D 2551, puppet terminator

4H

 

We stay within relays as long as we haven't lost more than two steps. This deal has made me aware that we need to switch heart and spade families after an 1H overcall by RHO so that 2S means 5S/5D and not the 5H/5D it presently shows.

[sieong]

You are South and 2nd seat. Favorable vulnerability. Scoring is imps. Dealer passes. I think South's hand qualifies in most strong club systems for a 1C opening, but make your normal opening. If possible your RHO will overcall 1S. If possible your LHO will raise to 2S except for two cases....1) opener rebids a strong NT or 2) responder establishes a game force AND the 2S bid takes up no room. For example, if the auction goes P 1C P 1D* (1S) 2H he will pass.

 

 

.................Q93

.................J97

.................T5

.................AQ954

654.............................AJT87

Q62.............................T3

AJ2..............................843

J762............................K83

.................K2

.................AK854

.................KQ976

.................T

 

I will open 1♥ with the South hand as I am afraid of bidding might go 1♣ (1/2♠) P (3/4♠). If that happens, I will probably bid 4♥ over 3♠ and 4N over 4♠, but I do not like the choices. With borderline two-suited hands, I generally starts with the non-1♣ opening.

 

Playing imprecision, the bidding for me would go 1♥ - 2♥ - 4♥.

[awm]

I'd bid this the same as Sam. If I had spades instead of hearts I might open 1♣. On borderline hands tactical concerns sometimes take priority.

[antonylee]

The hand suits perfectly a 1♥ opening in Polish club, intending to jump shift... so I'll have the same auction too.

[chasetb]

I don't like upgrading two-suited hands if Spades isn't one of the suits, unless the intermediates and shape tell me otherwise. Here, I am opening 1♥, because I can easily jump to 3♦ and I have limited my hand and gotten my suits across.

 

In my developing simple Transfer Precision, the auction would go 1♥-2♥; 4♥. The only difference is that 2♥ shows a great 8-12 HCP and 3+ trump, basically a Limit Raise.

[rbforster]

Silent Club:

 

1♥-2♥

4♥-P

 

I don't upgrade 15 counts into 1♣ based on distribution, unless they're 4 loser hands or similar. Here a precision jump rebid of 1♥...3♦ shows our hand perfectly so I wouldn't hesitate to start 1♥. We play Bergen raises, so 2♥ is ~6-9 and 3 card support. Since opener needs at least two aces and the Q♥ for slam (which would be an invitational response 1N...3♥ plan by responder), opener can just jump to game.

[akhare]

I might be tempted to open this 1♥ too, though the favorable vulnerability might swing me the other way.

 

In that case, it's 1♥ - 2♦ (constructive raise) - 4♥.

[the hog]

I'd bid this the same as Sam. If I had spades instead of hearts I might open 1♣. On borderline hands tactical concerns sometimes take priority.

 

Same bidding, same comment.

[Siegmund]

Offering an alternative (coming from a Polish/Unassuming/etc context), but the same outcome:

 

1H-2H

4D(LSST)-4H(no fitting honor and no cheap cuebid).

[relknes]

You are South and 2nd seat. Favorable vulnerability. Scoring is imps. Dealer passes. I think South's hand qualifies in most strong club systems for a 1C opening, but make your normal opening. If possible your RHO will overcall 1S. If possible your LHO will raise to 2S unless responder establishes a game force AND the 2S bid takes up no room. For example, if the auction goes P 1C P 1D* (1S) 2H he will pass.

 

 

.................Q93

.................J97

.................T5

.................AQ954

654.............................AJT87

Q62.............................T3

AJ2..............................843

J762............................K83

.................K2

.................AK854

.................KQ976

.................T

 

1♣ - 1N

2♥ - 4♥

P

 

Translation:

S: 16+ (upgraded on account of being a 4 loser hand), N: 9+ points, balanced (prefered over 2♣ here)

S: 5+ hearts, N: 3+ heart support, 0-3 controls, inability to splinter

S: lets play 4♥

 

North could also have responded 2♣ without changing the auction, but I prefer the 1N bid with a 5 card minor on most hands that qualify, especially with the notrumpish values.

[JLOGIC]

1H 2H 4H for me also.

[Zelandakh]

Another vote for 1♥ - 2♥; 4♥.

[Free]

1H-2H (11-15 5+H ; constructive raise, around 8-10)

3D-3H (long suit trial ; no support for D)

4H

 

I think this is a clear 1H opener. There's no reason to upgrade to an inferior opening imo. After 1H opps may interfere as much as they like, opener can just bid his D and has shown his hand in only 2 bids. Try that after a strong 1C opening ;)

 

I find it interesting that everyone gives up on slam. Partner can have the perfect hand (HQ, DA and SA) after his constructive raise. After my LST responder either rejects the invite or starts cuebidding (3S being frivolous, 3NT being serious with S cue). So I'll know below 4H if partner has the right Aces (when he bids 3NT). When partner would appear to have the nuts (4S kickback RKC followed by a 5H response), I can suggest 6D as an alternatve strain (by bidding 5NT "pick a slam"), because partner may have a 4 card D ofcourse.

[Zelandakh]

I find it interesting that everyone gives up on slam. Partner can have the perfect hand (HQ, DA and SA) after his constructive raise.

Perhaps your partner can but mine would have responded 1♠ with that hand. The given North hand is an absolute max for me; the Qxx Jxx holdings suggest taking the low road. Out of interest, if partner does bid 3NT (serious with spade cue) do you also have a mechanism to distinguish the ace from a singleton? YOu need all of these things in place before you can investigate slam safely; then you need to weigh up whether helping the defence on the vast majority of hands will not end up more important than slam when partner has the perfecto. In other words, I do find it unreasonable to give up here, even for those that are in fact playing constructive raises (but I bet we would see fewer giving up if North did have the perfecto!).

[hrothgar]

1♣ - (P) - 1♥ - (1♠)

4♦ - (P) - 4♥

 

The 1♥ response to the strong club opening shows a semi positive hand wth the following hand types

 

1. Balanced

2. Unbalanced with no 5 card major

3. Any 4441

 

The 4♦ rebid by Opener is leaping Michaels, showing Diamonds and Hearts

[Zelandakh]

What would North rebid if the ♥7 was the ♠7 Richard? It feels like there ought to be a route available which keeps 3NT in the picture after such a nebulous 1♥ response.

[hrothgar]

What would North rebid if the ♥7 was the ♠7 Richard? It feels like there ought to be a route available which keeps 3NT in the picture after such a nebulous 1♥ response.

 

If you dislike the 4♦ bid, then the other alternative is

 

1♣ - (P) - 1♥ - (1♠)

2♥ - (2♠) - 3♥ - (P)

4♥

[awm]

I find it interesting that everyone gives up on slam. Partner can have the perfect hand (HQ, DA and SA) after his constructive raise.

 

Some of us don't play constructive raises. Opposite a range of 5+ to 10- for the raise, looking for slam is chasing rainbows. We would bid 2♥ with 4333 and exactly heart queen plus two aces, but that is an absolute perfecto (and even then we would need some suit breaks).

[Free]

1♣ - (P) - 1♥ - (1♠)

4♦ - (P) - 4♥

 

The 1♥ response to the strong club opening shows a semi positive hand wth the following hand types

 

1. Balanced

2. Unbalanced with no 5 card major

3. Any 4441

 

The 4♦ rebid by Opener is leaping Michaels, showing Diamonds and Hearts

First time I see that 4D is LM. Definitely makes sense, since natural seems strange and 5-5 is always difficult to bid after intervention, although I would expect opener to be a little bit stronger. Based on QP's we're not in a GF situation. I'd rather start with a NF 2H. Responder would raise (showing a non-minimum) after which opener would bid game. End result is the same but we keep 3NT by North as an option.

 

Makes me wonder: what do you do with a slam invitational 5-5 (or stronger)? Is 4D forcing?

[hrothgar]

Makes me wonder: what do you do with a slam invitational 5-5 (or stronger)? Is 4D forcing?

 

Here's my current thinking regarding the strong club opener's rebid.

 

1. Jump shifts should show single suited hands with good suits.

2. In contrast, a simple advance in a new suit could be made on patterns like 5-4, 5-5s, and the like

3. A jump in NT shows an extreme two suiter

4. A rebid in NT shows a balanced hand with extra strength

5. Pass shows a balanced hand without extra strength

6. Double is takeout oriented

7. I think that a cue bid over 1♠ should be natural, suggesting that the opponents are screwing around. Over higher bids, it should be a stopper ask

[straube]

A little surprised there were only three club openers, but it's good that everyone is bidding their system. I'll think about not including such hands because I really prefer to deal with strong club auctions, but I also don't want to avoid hands that may or may not be difficult for our own club structure.

 

I understand tactical considerations and those who have 1H-1N, 3D available to show a maximum 5H/5D may do better to opt the route of 1H. For us, this shows a good 6H/5D hand so we are stuck rebidding 2D which could be something as meager as x AQxxx Axxx xxx. I.e. there's a danger for us in having too wide a range for our 1H opening. Another reason I open 1C is because our opening hands can't show 10 QPs, except by inference; i.e. partner has to show as 9 and then responder has to work it out after relaying for shape, QPs and then placing cards. I know that not all 10 QP hands qualify for a 16+ hcp 1C opening, but I think these are actually fairly infrequent. We eliminate some of them, too, by having a 14-16 NT. This second reason doesn't affect many and we may or may not be the only ones who relay 1H openings. Maybe Moscito relays limited hands as well.

 

One can always argue tactical considerations for opening natural and perhaps that's why some systems allow a wider range for 1M (say 11-18). My point is that you have to cut off somewhere and there may be nothing particularly magic as to one spot or another. Give the hand a useful jack and that will add much value to the hand and I bet we will get more club openings, but the opponents can be just as noisome.

 

I do understand the difference between 2-suiters that do and don't include spades.

 

I wrote Bergen some time past about a particular 0526 and I've no idea what he would say about just a 1525. There's a difference of a full loser in strength. We were playing a different system at the time....

 

Me "So I post a hand to BBO where I have void Axxxx Kx AKJxxx. I open a strong club (imps unfav). The auction goes 1C (1S) 2D (3S)

 

2D is a semipositive response showing 6 diamonds or 5 with an unbalanced hand. Partner has about 5-7 hcps.

 

I suggested now that dbl by me would show a heart suit but not both heart and club suits."

 

"Bergen"**As in the other case, that is a new one on me.

It's not crazy, though

For what it is worth, Meckwell plays 2D as game-forcing.

 

This reminds me of something I came up with that Larry + David did play

1D 3S ???

If you agree w me that virtually all hands that would want to bid a natural 4C should make a Thrump Dbl of 3S,

then you will agree that 4C should show C + H (5+, 5+)."

 

Me "The criticism I get is for opening a 2-suited hand 1C."

 

Bergen "1C is clear to me. I hate over-strength 2C bids in Precision.

This "Don't open a Precision Club or a Standard 2C with a 2-suiter is BS"

 

Me "I appreciate the criticism, but there's danger in opening 2-suited hands in a suit when the range is too wide. What would Meckwell or others do here?"

 

Bergen "1C"

 

Me "How strong a 2-suited hand might they open 1H or 2C natural?

 

Bergen "I believe they are sensible,

although Walter + Doug will open 2C with good hands where I would not."

[straube]

First time I see that 4D is LM. Definitely makes sense, since natural seems strange and 5-5 is always difficult to bid after intervention, although I would expect opener to be a little bit stronger. Based on QP's we're not in a GF situation. I'd rather start with a NF 2H. Responder would raise (showing a non-minimum) after which opener would bid game. End result is the same but we keep 3NT by North as an option.

 

Makes me wonder: what do you do with a slam invitational 5-5 (or stronger)? Is 4D forcing?

 

We also play Leaping Michaels opposite a negative or semipositive hand (i.e. not opposite a GF hand). We also play Rubensohl, so

 

1C-1H (1S) 16+, any SP

 

2H would be nf

3D would be invitational+ hearts

4D would be leaping Michaels.

 

I think our leaping Michaels is forcing. Maybe Rubensohl and a 4D rebid should just be invitational.

[Hilver]

Hilversumse Klaveren (HK)

 

1♥ - 1NT*

2♦ - 3♥

4♥

 

Explanation:

1♥ = 10-15 HCP, 5+-card ♥

1NT = forcing; 6-11 HCP, no 4-card ♠

3♥ = 3+ card heartssupport, a hand with good 9 HCP.

 

In HK in the auction 1♥ - 2♥, 2♥ = 10-11 HCP and exactly a 3-card ♥. 1♥-2NT = either 10-11 HCP and 4+-card support or 16+ HCP and 3+-card ♥.

 

Jan

[straube]

Hilversumse Klaveren (HK)

 

1♥ - 1NT*

2♦ - 3♥

4♥

 

Explanation:

1♥ = 10-15 HCP, 5+-card ♥

1NT = forcing; 6-11 HCP, no 4-card ♠

3♥ = 3+ card heartssupport, a hand with good 9 HCP.

 

In HK in the auction 1♥ - 2♥, 2♥ = 10-11 HCP and exactly a 3-card ♥. 1♥-2NT = either 10-11 HCP and 4+-card support or 16+ HCP and 3+-card ♥.

 

Jan

 

By your own system, I think you have a 2H raise. Responder has Q93 J97 T5 AQ954 which is actually less than 10-11 and only three hearts. I assume you upgraded it to 10-11 but it can't be worth a limit raise.