Advancing a 1S overcall

[mfa1010]

♠AQ

♥AQ98

♦J6

♣QJT72

 

(1♣) - 1♠ - (pass) - ?

 

None vul.

 

You have agreed to play transfer responses:

2♦ would show a heart suit, at least 5 cards.

2♥ would show 10+ with a 3-card fit.

2NT would show a 4-card fit.

 

What would you do?

[P_Marlowe]

2C, the bid you did not mention, ... unless it showes diamonds.

[Fluffy]

2♣ obviously shows diamonds, and 2♥ looks like the obvious choice, althou 3NT might be more practical.

[Codo]

3 NT

So, I have no way to force without a fit, but 2 ♥, 2♠, 2 NT, 3♠, 4 ♣ and 4♠ as raises....

I know, everything is a nice to have, but maybe at least one cheap bid should show a good hand without a stopper... Or is it impossible to hold AQ, Qxxx,AQxx,xxx?- maybe even with one honour more or less....

[mfa1010]

3 NT

So, I have no way to force without a fit, but 2 ♥, 2♠, 2 NT, 3♠, 4 ♣ and 4♠ as raises....

I know, everything is a nice to have, but maybe at least one cheap bid should show a good hand without a stopper... Or is it impossible to hold AQ, Qxxx,AQxx,xxx?- maybe even with one honour more or less....

3♣, 3♦, 3♥ and 4♦ would also be raises in our system. :)

 

If you have any good suggestions about system I would love to hear them.

[jogs]

What's the range for pard's 1♠ overcall? He is likely to be near the bottom of the range.

[mfa1010]

2♣ obviously shows diamonds, and 2♥ looks like the obvious choice, althou 3NT might be more practical.

If you bid 2♥, then you'll get the expected 2♠ response. Then what?

[paulg]

Luckily these hands do not come up often, but I prefer 2♥ to 3NT. At least we have doubleton honour and locating a heart fit is still possible, which is the reason why I prefer it over 3NT. Of course, if you play a style where you double with 5-4 majors then bidding 3NT directly is more attractive.

 

(I play the same methods, except that when the 1♣ may be short we play 1NT is a transfer to clubs)

[mfa1010]

What's the range for pard's 1♠ overcall? He is likely to be near the bottom of the range.

1♠ is normal, aggressive style. Like 8-17.

[P_Marlowe]

3♣, 3♦, 3♥ and 4♦ would also be raises in our system. :)

 

If you have any good suggestions about system I would love to hear them.

We play transfer as well, but the cue keeps its meaning, 2NT is transfer to whatever / the next

reasonable suit, it is sometimes a bit asymmetric.

This is not perfect, but at least you have a come on signal available, asking partner to tell more.

The downside, you loose the option to show a good raise with 4 card support.

If this is any better to current your structure, ..., depenps, matter of taste.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

Since I dont have cue av., I would go with 2H, AQ is at least as good as xxx.

 

I will bid 3NT later, if partner showes some live, and he does not show any

live, if he merely bids 2S, which I will pass.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[TWO4BRIDGE]

If you bid 2♥, then you'll get the expected 2♠ response. Then what?

3NT ... offering a choice of games

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I see Marlowe ( previous post ) had the same idea and posted it as I was slow typing .

Edited January 15, 2013 by TWO4BRIDGE

[Cyberyeti]

I bid 1N transfer to clubs - not playing that ? you need a way of bidding clubs naturally.

[billw55]

3 NT

So, I have no way to force without a fit, but 2 ♥, 2♠, 2 NT, 3♠, 4 ♣ and 4♠ as raises....

I know, everything is a nice to have, but maybe at least one cheap bid should show a good hand without a stopper... Or is it impossible to hold AQ, Qxxx,AQxx,xxx?- maybe even with one honour more or less....

3♣, 3♦, 3♥ and 4♦ would also be raises in our system. :)

 

If you have any good suggestions about system I would love to hear them.

So in your system, after a 1♠ overcall, you have at least ten (!) raises, only two ways to reach NT, and seemingly no way at all to show a minor suit? Seems a little strange, but no apparent harm done, I just bash 3NT.

[aguahombre]

So in your system, after a 1♠ overcall, you have at least ten (!) raises.....

Many forum members have 13 after their side opens 1S. Seems like a downward step in the right direction :rolleyes:

[mfa1010]

I bid 1N transfer to clubs - not playing that ? you need a way of bidding clubs naturally.

I feel that giving up on a having natural 1NT is a much too big a price to pay for being able to show the opponent's opening suit naturally, even if 1♣ could be short.

So I'm not hooked on making that change. 1NT comes up a lot.

[mfa1010]

So in your system, after a 1♠ overcall, you have at least ten (!) raises, only two ways to reach NT, and seemingly no way at all to show a minor suit? Seems a little strange, but no apparent harm done, I just bash 3NT.

I could bid 2♣ over 1♠ to show a diamond suit. It is only the enemy's opening suit, I can't show.

[lalldonn]

I would bid 3NT. Partner can pull with extra shape and I don't see a great alternative. If I bid 2♥ then I will just end up bidding 3NT next anyway so in that case why show support I don't have?

 

Although this hand is probably too good anyway, I hate not having a natural 2NT bid here. The overcall range is so wide that I think you need it. You will be completely screwed on hands that wanted to make that bid if it's not available. If it was available I might even do it since partner will pass my 3NT on some hands with six spades or four hearts where he would bid over 2NT.

[mfa1010]

Although this hand is probably too good anyway, I hate not having a natural 2NT bid here. The overcall range is so wide that I think you need it. You will be completely screwed on hands that wanted to make that bid if it's not available. If it was available I might even do it since partner will pass my 3NT on some hands with six spades or four hearts where he would bid over 2NT.

That's a good point. We play 2NT as 10+ with 4 card fit and 3♣ as a mixed raise. 3♦ and 3♥ are fit bids that never seem to come up anyway. Maybe it is better to rotate some of the bids so there will be room for a natural 2N.

In the club last Thursday, I had: ♠-, ♥QJT7, ♦AT985, ♣AKT8. Here the bidding went (1♦)-1♠-(pass), and I was screwed also. NV vs V I tried 1N, which worked out ok but didn't have to.

[aguahombre]

deleted

[Cyberyeti]

I bid 1N transfer to clubs - not playing that ? you need a way of bidding clubs naturally.

 

I feel that giving up on a having natural 1NT is a much too big a price to pay for being able to show the opponent's opening suit naturally, even if 1♣ could be short.

So I'm not hooked on making that change. 1NT comes up a lot.

I was being facetious but the point remains, on this hand you lose little by forcing to game, but imagine the same hand minus a queen. That's completely unbiddable.

 

I probably have to bid 3N but don't like it (or is that another raise ?)

[akhare]

We play transfer advances and the (1♣) - 1♠ - 2♥ - 3N sequence should probably show a hand with 2 card support and offer a COG.

 

However, in the absence of an explicit agreement, 3N seems like the most practical bid.

[JLOGIC]

+1, I am on board the 2N as a raise train, but I don't play it when RHO passes, I think a natural 2N is too valuable there.

 

I think I am endplayed into 3N here but that could work out horribly with AQ AQ98 in the majors obviously.

[mfa1010]

Thanks for comments (more comments are welcome :)).

 

I chose 3N but felt lousy about it. Jumping all the way from 1♠ to 3N when it so easily could be wrong felt like a beginner's bid.

 

[hv=pc=n&s=saqhaq98dj6cqjt72&n=sjt982h52da98ca53&d=w&v=0&b=8&a=1c1sp3nppp]266|200[/hv]

 

The contract was reasonable, though. The declaring had a fun theme as it went:

 

Lead ♦3 third/fifth, to ♦8, ♦K, ♦6.

East shifts to ♥J (denying the T according to their agreements).

[Trinidad]

Why not 2♥ (♠ raise), followed by 3♥ (natural game try, forcing to 3♠)? That way you will be able to put spades and hearts in the picture and you may be able to bid 3NT should partner bid 3♠.

 

Seems to me that this way you can have your cake, eat it too and put some in the freezer.

 

Rik