straube Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 You are South and fourth seat. Unfavorable. RHO sticks in a 1H bid if available. ................void................842................Q8643................QJT728632..........................J74J6...............................KQ953JT2.............................97A954..........................K63................AKQT95................AT7................AK5................8 P P P 1C 4S N SCREAM 3/43N S Meckwell Light PH4S S PhilKing4S S Precision by Free5D N New Big Club3N S Polish Club3N S Silent Club 4S N IMPrecision3N S Relknes5D N Moscito5D N OC Precision5D N dake504H N TOSR3N S Zelandakh5D S Jasmine Club4S S tosr (mbodell) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straube Posted January 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 You are South and fourth seat. Unfavorable. RHO sticks in a 1H bid if available. ................void................842................Q8643................QJT728632..........................J74J6...............................KQ953JT2.............................97A954..........................K63................AKQT95................AT7................AK5................8 P P P 1C We have been exploring a different system in 3rd and 4th and I would not recommend SCREAM in those positions. Our bidding goes... .......P1C-1D (1H) 16+, 2-4 QPsP -1S GF relay, bal or various1N-2D ask, minors2H-2N ask, 5/53C-3D ask, spade short (we assume 1255)3H-3S ask, 2 QPs4D-4H puppets, forced4S We try to stay in system if possible. Without the 1H overcall, a rebid of 1H would either be natural or a GF asking bid, so I think it's natural that pass would mean only GF relay while dbl would mean natural and possibly GF relay. Should responder pull the double, opener could force game with further relays or break relay to show a minimum hand with hearts. It turns out slam can be made in either spades or diamonds due to favorable breaks and the fall of the SJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 With us it would probably go something like this:1♣-1♦ (16+ ; 0-7 any)(1♥)1♠-2♣ (4+♠, F1 ; 5-7HCP, 0-2♠)4♠?-pass (to play) There's a slower route to find the ♦ fit, but not sure you want to be in slam. The only source of tricks can come from ♦ (which North happens to have), but how can we find out if he's got the ♦Q in time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilver Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Hilversumse Klaveren 1♣ - 2♠2NT - 3♦3♥ - 3NT4NT - 5♣5♦ Explanation:2♠ = 5+/5+ minors; 4-7 HCP2NT = asking bid3♦ = 5-5 minors and a void3♥ = asking void in ♥ or ♠4♣ = void in spades4NT = asking for keycards5♣ = no keycards5♦ = sign off; it's a pity but I don't gamble Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straube Posted January 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 With us it would probably go something like this:1♣-1♦ (16+ ; 0-7 any)(1♥)1♠-2♣ (4+♠, F1 ; 5-7HCP, 0-2♠)4♠?-pass (to play) There's a slower route to find the ♦ fit, but not sure you want to be in slam. The only source of tricks can come from ♦ (which North happens to have), but how can we find out if he's got the ♦Q in time? Even with the DQ I wonder whether it's right to be in slam. I can find the DQ with a bid of 4C (pd will show 0 or 2 top diamonds with a 1-step response) but we still need all six spade tricks to come in. In my auction I'm presuming a stiff so dropping the jack seems more likely than not (someone knows the odds) but pd is actually void and I also think I have to have a 3-2 diamond split. Maybe 45% slam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straube Posted January 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Hilversumse Klaveren 1♣ - 2♠2NT - 3♦3♥ - 3NT4NT - 5♣5♦ Explanation:2♠ = 5+/5+ minors; 4-7 HCP2NT = asking bid3♦ = 5-5 minors and a void3♥ = asking void in ♥ or ♠3NT = void in spades4NT = asking for keycards5♣ = no keycards5♦ = sign off; it's a pity but I don't gamble Jan Nice 2S bid to have. Is that available all seats or only for a passed hand? Nice auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petterb Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 You are South and fourth seat. Unfavorable. RHO sticks in a 1H bid if available. ................void................842................Q8643................QJT728632..........................J74J6...............................KQ953JT2.............................97A954..........................K63................AKQT95................AT7................AK5................8 P P P 1CSurely no one would pass East's hand in third fav? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Agree many would open the east hand in third NV. Ignoring that, IMprecision auction would start: 1♣ - 2♣ (strong, 5+♣ maybe also diamonds 2-6RP 5+ hcp)2♦ - 2♠ (GF relay, 5+/5+ in the minors)2NT - 3♣ (relay, short spades)3♦ - 3♠ (relay, 0355 pattern) At this point opener knows there's a bit of a lousy fit. Slam is still fairly good opposite ♦Q+♣A or ♦Q+♥K, but seems lousy opposite the actual hand. I think my path here would diverge depending on form of scoring. At MP: 4♣ - 4♦ (ask strength, 2-3 RP)4♠ - Pass (slam seems unlikely opposite 2-3 RP, and I want to be in the higher scoring game rather than reaching 5♦) At IMP: 4♣ - 4♦ (ask strength, 2-3 RP)4♥ - 4♠ (try again, 2 RP)Pass In the latter auction, it is possible that responder will go past 4♠ on a hand where slam is not so good, by bidding one of: 4NT (3RP no top diamond); I will try 5♦5♣ (3RP top diamond no top club); this is ♥K+♦Q and I will try slam5♦ (3RP top diamond top club no top heart); this is ♦Q + ♣K and I will pass and play 5♦5♥ (3RP with ♥Q+♦Q+♣Q); I will try slam; at least hearts are protected from the lead and partner might have ♥J or ♦J which helps a lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilver Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Nice 2S bid to have. Is that available all seats or only for a passed hand? Nice auction. In all seats. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM75 Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Nice problem. Discussing this with partner and raising it with Oliver Clarke as well. http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif We like:...X - 2♦ takeout and opener has "more than minimum", 5 diamonds (forced < 7) (p would have doubled 1♥ by E to show 5-7)2♠ - 3♣ No spade interest, 5-7 at least 54 minors now it gets murky and judgmental - could rebid spades showing 6, 3N looks risky in rounded, coin toss. 4♠ or 5♦ (I think I prefer 5♦ "Bergen counting" it to 28-29 assuming p has 5 hcp and probably useful shape in the minor contract. There might also be something to be said for 4♦ (strong invitation) allowing partner to show a good 1 spade or 2 spade holding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 1C 1D (1H) (strong, 0-7)X 2D (I would be thinking 3N as the opener, so I would double to see what partner does)2H 3C (2S would be strong but NF, and with a good chance for 9 tricks I won't make a NF bid.)3N P (The decision point has come, I think 3N is a slam dunk). I was thinking maybe north would bid something stronger than 2D, but he knows his partner is doubling with long spades so his hand is pretty bad. My auction may be a little ghetto but irl I am thinking 3N all the way after 1C p 1D (1H), it's just how my brain works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sieong Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Also IMprecision, with a different choice in the third round. 1♣ - 2♣ (strong; 2-6RP, 5+♣)2♦ - 2♠ (GF; 55 minors)3♣ - 3♦ (short ♣ and relay; short ♠)3♥ - 3N (relay; 0355)4♣ - 4♦ (RP ask; 0-1 RP not counting ♣K/Q)4♠ Over 4♣, if responder bids 4♥, the hand could be - Qxx Qxxxx xxxxx or - Kxx xxxxx xxxxx. Slam is poor in the first and no play in the second. I will signoff in game but unfortunately can no longer play 4♠. I will try 4NT at MP, and probably 5♦ at IMP. If responder bids 4♠, the hand could be - KQx xxxxx xxxxx, - xxx xxxxx Axxxx, - Kxx Qxxxx xxxxx. Slam has no play in the first, so-so in the second and reasonable in the third(and pretty good if responder has ♦J, which I won't be able to find out below slam level). I will proceed with 4NT, getting 5♣ on hands 1 and 2, and 5♦ on hand 3 (over which I will bid slam). After 5♣ on hands 1 and 2, I will give up and try to play 5♠. Note that the above hand all look too weak because ♣K and Q were not included in the picture. For slam purposes, they are not useful, but for game purposes, they may still help. For example, opposite - KQx xxxxx Kxxxx, 5♠ has pretty good play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straube Posted January 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Also IMprecision, with a different choice in the third round. 1♣ - 2♣ (strong; 2-6RP, 5+♣)2♦ - 2♠ (GF; 55 minors)3♣ - 3♦ (short ♣ and relay; short ♠)3♥ - 3N (relay; 0355)4♣ - 4♦ (RP ask; 0-1 RP not counting ♣K/Q)4♠ Over 4♣, if responder bids 4♥, the hand could be - Qxx Qxxxx xxxxx or - Kxx xxxxx xxxxx. Slam is poor in the first and no play in the second. I will signoff in game but unfortunately can no longer play 4♠. I will try 4NT at MP, and probably 5♦ at IMP. If responder bids 4♠, the hand could be - KQx xxxxx xxxxx, - xxx xxxxx Axxxx, - Kxx Qxxxx xxxxx. Slam has no play in the first, so-so in the second and reasonable in the third(and pretty good if responder has ♦J, which I won't be able to find out below slam level). I will proceed with 4NT, getting 5♣ on hands 1 and 2, and 5♦ on hand 3 (over which I will bid slam). After 5♣ on hands 1 and 2, I will give up and try to play 5♠. Note that the above hand all look too weak because ♣K and Q were not included in the picture. For slam purposes, they are not useful, but for game purposes, they may still help. For example, opposite - KQx xxxxx Kxxxx, 5♠ has pretty good play. Interesting. So would any relay break by opener show shortness? For example, would 3H show short hearts? I think I'll arbitrarily use the contract suggested by whomever of you posts first unless I see a revision by the first poster. Hope that sounds ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Traditionally, I played Blue Club in third/fourth seat. A much sounder strong club opening, control showing responses and the like. The auction would proceed 1♣ - 1♥ 1H denies three controls1♠ - 2♦2♠ - 3♣3♦ - 4♦4♥ - 5♦ 4♥= cue bid. 5♦ = don't cue shortage in partner's suit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Which bids were forcing in your auction Richard? 2S, 3D? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Which bids were forcing in your auction Richard? 2S, 3D? 1H establishes a force to 2NT 3♦ isn't forcing and, arguably, could/should be passed don't ask me why I'm cue bidding after 4♦ (I'm chasing the Nyquil dragon trying to deal with this damn flu) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Just my opinion but its too big to make a non forcing bid when you have 9 tricks in your hand if spades run. Even if spades don't run (which is like 50/50 opp a stiff) if partner produces Qxxxx of diamonds you have 9 that way if diamonds run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straube Posted January 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 1H establishes a force to 2NT 3♦ isn't forcing and, arguably, could/should be passed don't ask me why I'm cue bidding after 4♦ (I'm chasing the Nyquil dragon trying to deal with this damn flu) Maybe opener needs to bid 3H (4SF) after 3C to start a GF? 1C-1H1S-2S2S-3C3H*-4C4D-5D Like that? In any case, have you down for 5D. What I've been thinking about a bit is that those of us (I think just you and I) using different structures for 3/4th seat are basically testing two different systems. That's fine as long as we're aware. If we don't include 3/4th seat hands, then systems like IMPrecision (which handled this deal very well imo) won't have the relative advantage that comes from devoting more room to weaker hands. OTOH, if we're compelled to use systems that were meant for 1st and 2nd seat in 3rd and 4th as well, then these are disadvantaged. When I post the contracts reached for these, I'll try to distinguish if a 3/4 system was used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relknes Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 You are South and fourth seat. Unfavorable. RHO sticks in a 1H bid if available. ................void................842................Q8643................QJT728632..........................J74J6...............................KQ953JT2.............................97A954..........................K63................AKQT95................AT7................AK5................8 P P P 1C Using a fairly basic strong club with reverse-cuebids, I would bid: 1♣-1♦ (1♥)2♠-3♣3N Translation:S: 16+ points, N: 0-8 points, E: typical overcallS: 6+ spades and 9+ playing tricks, N: 5-8 points, naturalS: to play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbforster Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 I don't have as strong agreements on interference continuations (we play natural takeout doubles and bidding here), so this one is much more subjective. P-1♣1♦-(1♥)-2♠ most non GF hands; natural strongly invitational with a decent suit3♣-3N natural with enough values for game; game FWIW, this is still a Vul 2N minors opening by our partner, so we would preempt the auction before the strong club hand gets to bid. In that case, I think it'd just be 2N-3♠ 5/5 minors weak; natural GF3N-P can't support spades In both of these the weak hand has shown clubs, which makes it seem like 3N is a reasonable choice vs 4♠ opposite likely shortness. I'm not sure if it'd be right to pull 3N to 4♠ anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dake50 Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 ............ ....void ................842 ................Q8643 ................QJT72 8632..........................J74 J6............................KQ953 JT2...........................97 A954..........................K63 ................AKQT95 ................AT7 ................AK5 ................8 First East 3rd seat deviates to open 2H.- - - 1C . 18+ bal or clubs OR 5losers-5controls-5+spades- 1D- 2S . 0-7 . - .F1 - 2D- 3D . 5+D, 2NT is bust . - .D-fit- 5D. . reasonable if not best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straube Posted January 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 ............ ....void ................842 ................Q8643 ................QJT72 8632..........................J74 J6............................KQ953 JT2...........................97 A954..........................K63 ................AKQT95 ................AT7 ................AK5 ................8 First East 3rd seat deviates to open 2H.- - - 1C . 18+ bal or clubs OR 5losers-5controls-5+spades- 1D- 2S . 0-7 . - .F1 - 2D- 3D . 5+D, 2NT is bust . - .D-fit- 5D. . reasonable if not best. You didn't include a 1H overcall and your 2D bid is insufficient after opener's 2S bid. Would you amend this? Are you playing a Swedish or Polish club or something else? What is the name of your system? Btw, I agree with those who post that 3rd seat is likely to take some action before the strong club and I should have picked a deal that was more plausible, but the defender's hands could have been arranged a little different and we still have a useful bidding problem to solve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonylee Posted January 14, 2013 Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 Not really sure about this one but I expect something like- pass1♣ (Polish) - 1♦ (0-7(-8 if no 4cM)) (1♥)X (T/O or strong) - 2♦2♠ (2♠ on first round would be 18-20ish I think) - 3♣3♦ - 3♥ (stopper?)3N... or 4♠? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted January 14, 2013 Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 Easily the hardest of the three so far: P... - 1♣ = 15+ nat/bal or 18+ any1♦ = non-GF (yes, I really should get around to changing this!)(1♥)... - 1♠ = unbal GF or 18+ 3-suited2♦ = 3-5... - 2♠ = nat3♣ = nat... - 3NT = nat The auction is not giving me warm fuzzy thoughts but it is difficult to find good alternatives for either hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straube Posted January 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 Easily the hardest of the three so far: P... - 1♣ = 15+ nat/bal or 18+ any1♦ = non-GF (yes, I really should get around to changing this!)(1♥)... - 1♠ = unbal GF or 18+ 3-suited2♦ = 3-5... - 2♠ = nat3♣ = nat... - 3NT = nat The auction is not giving me warm fuzzy thoughts but it is difficult to find good alternatives for either hand. What's your 2D bid? 3-5 hcps? diamonds? Are your 2S and 3C bids forcing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.