Action over opponent's 1N?

[1eyedjack]

It is fairly rare that the par contract on a hand involves going for a penalty in NT. Of those, 6NT X -4 as the par result has to be a small minority of a small minority. Not that anyone would seriously want to be in 6H the other way, just because it happens to make:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sk98hq97da76cak76&w=saq753hak4djtc854&n=s42h63dq85cqjt932&e=sjt6hjt852dk9432c&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=pp1nppp]399|300[/hv]

 

Nearly all the tables, except the one that I was watching, overcalled the 1N with 2S on the West hand, and thereafter the auctions diverged all number of ways.

 

Personally I thought that West's Pass at this table was normal, but given the weight of numbers in favour of 2S in the room I am wondering whether my perception of normal is skew.

 

Any thoughts?

[SteveMoe]

West's pass is normal.

East should act. Partner has HCP behind opener and we have 55 distribution. Trot out my Mm 2-suit bid please...

East's void is enough to act. I would bid on xxx xxxxx xxxxx ---.

Particularly important when methods over !N openings have no clear way to show a big hand...

[JLOGIC]

Yes, passing with 5332 is always normal unless the hand/suit is good enough for a double. This is especially true vulnerable with a terrible suit, but I think it is just always normal to pass with any 5332.

 

Likewise, it is normal to balance with 5530 and a 5 count. You rate to have somewhere close to half the deck and a fit, and partner rates to make a bad lead vs 1N (and if he doesn't, you probably have a big fit and do very well on offense). Also, your points will be well placed since partner will have the bulk of them over lefty.

[Fluffy]

I overcall 5332 when opps are not vulnerable at MPs, I so much hate +100 versus +110. RHO being balanced reduces the chances of bad breaks.

 

Anyway nothing like that is going on this time, the unbalanced hand on the passout sit must act.

[wyman]

I learned this lesson the hard way in a recent swiss when holding basically Jxxx/xxxxx/Jxxx/void, I failed to balance (with 2C=majors available, no less), and we missed a cold game. :(

[1eyedjack]

Thanks all. Had not got as far as considering East's position. Mainly because I normally play in an environment where weak 1N opener is the norm and as opponents you need constructive defensive methods. But Wyman's post returns me to that point.

 

On this hand, South is limited to 15-17, and North is limited to 0-7 (say). So the combined N/S strength is about 15-24, and the combined E/W strength is the complement, which is to say 16-25.

 

Not that points are the be-all and end-all of everything, but you MIGHT take a long term view that while a range of 16-25 does give some prospect for a game contract your way, it is sufficiently remote in frequency that you would do better to give up entirely on that prospect and pay off to those occasions, in the interests of maximising your ability to contest the partscore secure in the knowledge that when you bid with a very weak hand and happen to hit partner with some strength he is not going to go overboard. If it is any consolation, making your game in overtricks in a partscore contract is likely to be a better result than defending 1N, despite the lack of game bonus.

 

But I do perceive a problem if you want to have your cake and eat it, by protecting on ultra-weak hands and also expecting accurately to bid your game contracts. Presumably those who advocate protection on East's 5-count in this thread (or even yarborough as has been suggested) and on Wyman's more extreme 2-count, would also advocate protection had East held 12 or 13 points in an otherwise similar hand.

 

Granted that the location of most of the opposition strength is known to be in the 1N opener, and honours sitting directly over it are well placed and depress the minimum requirements for game, it remains the case that what is being recommended here is that East protects (with shape) on anything from a 0 count to say 13, and your combined values remain in the range 16-25, on the basis of which the direct seat hand is expected to co-operate with game tries on an intelligent basis, and I am not convinced that this is a reasonable burden to place on West. UNLESS, as I say earlier, you just give up on bidding games. Against a weak 1N opener your combined strength is 16-28, which rather puts a different complexion on the problem.

[gnasher]

I learned this lesson the hard way in a recent swiss when holding basically Jxxx/xxxxx/Jxxx/void, I failed to balance (with 2C=majors available, no less), and we missed a cold game. :(

I don't think you should bid with that. Bidding is unlikely to produce a plus score, because if partner has a fit he will take us too high, and if he doesn't the hand will play awfully. This hand is far worse than the East hand in the original post.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

I would pass.

 

But most likely I would reopen with the East Hand, if 1NT comes around to

me, but I can show diamonds and hearts at once.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[wyman]

I don't think you should bid with that. Bidding is unlikely to produce a plus score, because if partner has a fit he will take us too high, and if he doesn't the hand will play awfully. This hand is far worse than the East hand in the original post.

 

FWIW, Hampson balanced. I'll try to dig the whole hand up.

[wyman]

FWIW, Hampson balanced. I'll try to dig the whole hand up.

 

J1085 / 109873 / void / J1032

 

Admittedly, I left out the incredible spots when I represented the hand above.

[wyman]

I don't think you should bid with that. Bidding is unlikely to produce a plus score, because if partner has a fit he will take us too high, and if he doesn't the hand will play awfully. This hand is far worse than the East hand in the original post.

 

Sorry for the 3-in-a-row here, but the flip-side of this is that it's not clear (imo) that partner will push us too high. He knows there are 15-17 to his right as well. If he has a shapely 15 with a 4 or 5cM, game might have a ton of play, especially since he knows the location of all the HCP. At least we're not defending 1N with a lead into my void in any case, and partner might take the low road anyway with a lot of marginal hands, or he might invite (which I'll politely decline).

 

Not saying it's clear (I passed at the table), but the balancers do have something going for them.

 

edit: +1 to 1eyedjack imo. I think W should bid game with a monster or with a shapely fitting hand, otherwise just focus on winning the partial.