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Responding to partner's takeout double


paulg

  

33 members have voted

  1. 1. Your call?

    • Pass
      27
    • 5H
      6
    • Other
      0


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I shouldn't have said negative double, was a poor use of the term.

 

I should have said that I play it as a "values, it's our hand but I don't have a clear cut action", double. Not A penalty double but if you want to I can cope.

 

Whereas the definition of a take out double is, I do not want to play in this contract, please bid something else. Now that can be converted into a penalty but you need some reason, you fear a misfit, you have trump tricks, your hand is defensive not offensive ie few quick tricks.

 

This hand IMO is not a penalty pass, thus I bid 5

I think that a "takeout double" at the five level shows a hand where you would have made a takeout double at the three- or four-level and been happy to have it taken out into a game contract.

 

I don't think there is any hand that could say "I do not want to play in this contract, please bid something else" and simultaneously "I'm happy for you to bid five of any of the other three suits on K10532." Your definition may be more consistent linguistically, but it also means that a five-level takeout double doesn't exist.

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So, in current popular usage, the term "negative double" is reserved for the double made by the partner of the opening bidder after intervention. But the fact is that negative doubles are any doubles that are not positive (i.e. penalty) doubles.

 

I guess I was wrong about where "negative" came from, but still I would have thought that "current popular usage" was more relevant than popular usage before 1957. If the latter is the terminology you used in your youth, fine, I don't expect you to give it up. But you might want to keep in mind that for most people, the term "negative double" does not mean "any takeout double" and never did.

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And even though there's probably 15 holes in my logic, I don't think I'm foolish for bidding 5.

 

Now, if they were vulnerable... I might be a little less convinced.

 

The silver bullet is that partner will often raise to six and go off when we bid Five Hearts.

 

The big money is in bidding and making slam - not trying to land on a pinhead at the five level. By stipulating that a removal to five of a suit shows a better and more shapely hand, we make our slam decisions more accurate.

 

Also, your example hands are all pretty suitable. Partner is allowed to have a good 4351, for instance, in which case bidding rates to work very poorly.

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The silver bullet is that partner will often raise to six and go off when we bid Five Hearts.

 

The big money is in bidding and making slam - not trying to land on a pinhead at the five level. By stipulating that a removal to five of a suit shows a better and more shapely hand, we make our slam decisions more accurate.

 

Also, your example hands are all pretty suitable. Partner is allowed to have a good 4351, for instance, in which case bidding rates to work very poorly.

Yeah, I pretty much live in hypothetical land; it's driven my partner nuts before. :D

But even on this sort of pin that we are trying to land on, I will still try to land in it.

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If the latter is the terminology you used in your youth....

Why do I get the feeling that I was just insulted? :)

 

Pardon me, my rocking chair just got stuck.

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The silver bullet is that partner will often raise to six and go off when we bid Five Hearts.

 

The big money is in bidding and making slam - not trying to land on a pinhead at the five level. By stipulating that a removal to five of a suit shows a better and more shapely hand, we make our slam decisions more accurate.

 

Also, your example hands are all pretty suitable. Partner is allowed to have a good 4351, for instance, in which case bidding rates to work very poorly.

One might happily ignore all the noise in the rest of the thread, and leave only this.

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