Is This Bid Forcing?

[eagles123]

ok so last night, the bidding went:

 

2♦ p 2♥ all pass

 

the 2 diamonds bid was weak... is 2 hearts forcing? I always thought any change of suit response after a pre-empt was forcing but my p passed and was backed up by an "advanced" player on the table when I asked her why... in the end worked perfectly as game wasn't on, but I held 18 points so was a bit disappointed at pass from my p and on another day we would have had a bad score just got lucky I think.

[aguahombre]

I don't know what jurisdiction you are playing in. But, if it were the ACBL, a new suit response to an opening 2-bid is so obviously expected to be forcing that if you agree otherwise the response must be alerted.

 

Your partner and the allegedly advanced player apparently were not advanced enough to know that.

[Cyberyeti]

It's a matter of style, I play it non forcing but rarely passed. My general opinion is that the wider the range of your weak 2, the more sensible it is to play it as invitational.

[eagles123]

It's a matter of style, I play it non forcing but rarely passed. My general opinion is that the wider the range of your weak 2, the more sensible it is to play it as invitational.

 

ok, so with

 

♠KQ4

♥AQJ983

♦Q3

♣A6

 

Do you think 2♥ was enough from me after an opening weak 2♦ or should I have bid something different?

[Cyberyeti]

ok, so with

 

♠KQ4

♥AQJ983

♦Q3

♣A6

 

Do you think 2♥ was enough from me after an opening weak 2♦ or should I have bid something different?

If your weak 2♦ is the standard 6-10, I think I'd ask partner about the quality of his hand/suit with 2N. Playing what I play where our weak 2 is much wider range I'd bid 2♥.

 

If you consider that ♦KJ10xxx and Kx♣ puts 3N on a finesse at worst unless partner has no hearts and ♦ AKxxxx and out is likely to mean 3N/4♥/5♦ may all have decent play, I think you can only bid 2♥ if partner is only going to pass with a non fit minimum.

[P_Marlowe]

News suits after a 3 level preempt are forcing.

 

You can play the same after 2 level preempts, some dont,

but it simplifies life.

In the end it comes down, how disciplined your suits are

with respect to suit quality, if the honors can be spread

across the hand, than NF makes sense, otherwise not.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[TylerE]

I'll agree that I would expect forcing to be standard (Aka the common 'RONF' - Raise Only Non-Forcing) agreement.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think this is non-optimal though, and that strong hands, fitting or not, should start with something else.

 

A lebensohl-style structure might make sense...

 

Something like:

 

2-level bids NF

2NT Ogust,

3-level bids forcing

[Zelandakh]

With a pick-up partner I would never pass a change of suit response after my weak 2. The default is forcing. That said, I would not feel confident that any given pick-up partner would not pass my change of suit response! With agreement you can play either way and both methods are reasonable. Also, you should feel free to ignore the ratings given in profiles. If you want an idea of how good a player is then go to the BBO hand records and pull up their record for the last month. It is not perfect but far more useful than the self-ratings.

[mgoetze]

I'll agree that I would expect forcing to be standard (Aka the common 'RONF' - Raise Only Non-Forcing) agreement.

 

The more I think about it, the more I ...

...realise that this is all that should be said about it at a novice/beginner level? ;)

[Cthulhu D]

...realise that this is all that should be said about it at a novice/beginner level? ;)

 

Yeah, raise only non-forcing is the most sensible agreement to start with. I also agree with Zelandakh that I'd never pass a 2H bid there.

[P_Marlowe]

ok, so with

 

♠KQ4

♥AQJ983

♦Q3

♣A6

 

Do you think 2♥ was enough from me after an opening weak 2♦ or should I have bid something different?

If 2H is forcing, sure, if it is non forcing, I would insist on game, and bid 4H.

I am not going to find out, if partner has what I need, and since several things will help me,

I just bid game.

[Antig2]

ok so last night, the bidding went:

 

2♦ p 2♥ all pass

 

the 2 diamonds bid was weak... is 2 hearts forcing? I always thought any change of suit response after a pre-empt was forcing but my p passed and was backed up by an "advanced" player on the table when I asked her why... in the end worked perfectly as game wasn't on, but I held 18 points so was a bit disappointed at pass from my p and on another day we would have had a bad score just got lucky I think.

 

GF for me

[mgoetze]

GF for me

Uhhuh, and what do you do if you'd like to play 4♥ if opener has a fit but stay out of game otherwise?

[aguahombre]

Uhhuh, and what do you do if you'd like to play 4♥ if opener has a fit but stay out of game otherwise?

A valid question. It actually occurred once, too... on 2H-2S where we were able to stop on a dime at 3S. Maybe it would happen more often if 2D were a wk-two.

[rmnka447]

Whether a new suit is forcing or ont after a weak 2 bid is a matter of partnership agreement. But as most other posters have said, the default is that new suits are forcing.