Advancing an overcall

[Antrax]

(1♦)-1♠-(p)-?

 

Roughly how strong is 1NT by advancer here?

Bonus questions:

- Natural 2NT?

- new suit at 2-level?

- cue bid?

[BunnyGo]

http://www.bridge.is/files/Partnership%20Bidding%20at%20Bridge_2054397795.pdf

 

I'm no expert, so I go to the source when I have competitive bidding questions :)

[Antrax]

N/B forum, yes? :)

[mich-b]

Roughly 9-12.

[P_Marlowe]

1NT is basically the same as in an uncontested auction,

a bit better, but not much - 7/8-10.

 

Without discussion 2NT would be natural, but I would assume

13-15.

Most likely I would prefer to go via a cue, to find out, if

partner is min or max, before commiting myself above two of

his suit.

 

New suits are ... , I prefer nonforcing, but this is heavily

depend on how agressive you play your overcalls.

Quite often it does not really matter, hands worth a constructive

nonforcing call, would make the same call, even if the call

would be forcing.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[BunnyGo]

N/B forum, yes? :)

 

ah yes, didn't notice.

[SteveMoe]

Can make several approaches work.

Here's a simple one:

1N = 8-11 balanced no fit.

2N = 12-14 balanced

Cue bid (decide style):

1) Limit Raise or better (Fit promised)

or

2) Limit Raise or better -or- any GF (Fit implied)

 

Some play jump cue bid as constructive 4-card raise (7-9 w/4-card support).

I've played jump cue as 4 card invitational raise, leaving simplle cue for 3-card support and GF hands.

[SimonFa]

1NT is basically the same as in an uncontested auction,

a bit better, but not much - 7/8-10.

 

 

Usualy with a stopper in ops bid suit, or at least half a stopper, say Qx, and some, including me, would expect to see 2 cards in partners but its not the end of the world if there isn't.

[Zelandakh]

After an overcall, NT responses are traditionally about 3 points lighter than in response to an opening. That is 1NT = 9-12; 2NT = 13-15; 3NT = 16-18. If you think about an opening being around 10-19 hcp and an overcall being about 7-16 hcp then this makes sense. If you decide to play your overcalls stronger or weaker than this then you might also want to adjust the point ranges of the responses.

[Phil]

(1♦)-1♠-(p)-?

 

Roughly how strong is 1NT by advancer here?

Bonus questions:

- Natural 2NT?

- new suit at 2-level?

- cue bid?

 

I cannot imagine passing an 8 count with a reasonable stopper in their suit, so my stated range for 1N is 8-11/12.

 

One things thats really important is the positional nature of your stopper. A holding like KJTx is worth some extras.

 

Last night I picked up Ax Q8xx Kxxx K9x. RHO opened 1♣, pass, pass, 1♠ by partner. At the other table, 1N ended the auction. My 2N was boosted to 3N (Pard had KQT9x Tx AJx Axx), and we picked up a nice swing.

[mgoetze]

Bonus questions:

- Natural 2NT?

Not for me, but undiscussed at a beginner-intermediate level, yes.

 

- new suit at 2-level?

Forcing, especially in this forum.

 

- cue bid?

I feel confident in telling even beginners that this should show an invitational or better hand with a spade fit.

[Lord Molyb]

1NT should depend on how strong your overcalls are.

[WellSpyder]

Last night I picked up Ax Q8xx Kxxx K9x. RHO opened 1♣, pass, pass, 1♠ by partner. At the other table, 1N ended the auction. My 2N was boosted to 3N (Pard had KQT9x Tx AJx Axx), and we picked up a nice swing.

I don't think 1N should have ended the auction. Indeed, with the hand you quote opposite I would probably have raised 1N directly to 3N!

 

Advancing an overcall does depend on whether it is a direct overcall or one in the protective seat, and standard advice is to "transfer a king", ie to lower maximum and minimum limits for the overcaller by around 3 HCPs in the protective seat while correspondingly raising maximum and minimum limits by the same amount when advancing over a protective overcall.

[han]

I agree that 1NT was the right bid with Phil's hand, but that partner should never pass it.

[JLOGIC]

8 and 12 are the borderline cases. NV I would say I bid 1N with all 12s almost, and pass many 8 counts (I would be more likely to bid with 4-5 hearts where we have extra chances for a heart game, or with great spot cards).

 

Red I would say I bid with most 8s, and bid 2N with some 12 counts. That said, I overcall exceptionally light NV and not so much when I'm vul.

[Codo]

(1♦)-1♠-(p)-?

 

Roughly how strong is 1NT by advancer here?

Bonus questions:

- Natural 2NT?

- new suit at 2-level?

- cue bid?

 

8-11 for me

- forcing raise, but this is surely not standard.

-non forcing to me.

-to me asking for stopper or another good hand which cannot raise, but this is not standard either...

[mycroft]

I agree with all the posts, but nobody's explicitly mentioned the "why".

 

When partner overcalls, not only are they likely to be lighter than opening, they're likely to be more shapely than opening. They *don't* want to hear NT. They usually would rather not hear any non-raise, but at least there's more chance of a fit somewhere.

 

So, not only do you want to be the king stronger with your NT overcalls that partner could have stolen to overcall (vs. opening), you also want to be stronger because your stoppers are wasted values for developing tricks. NT should be a "have to" bid, not a "want to" bid.

 

Not asked here, but this all goes double for NT responses to takeout doubles (where partner *really* doesn't want to hear NT, as they've used dummy points to bid).

[lycier]

Generally I agree with mgoetze's opinion.

For me:

1-1nt=good 7p to bad 11p with some proposed game values if partner have extra values, exactly a stopper at least in ♦ suit.

2-I play 2nt as a limited raise,9-11P+ with 4 card support,invite to 4♠.

3-New suit at 2-level is forcing a round,roughly with 10 p+.

4-Cuebid should show an invitational or better hand with three card ♠ support generally,forcing a round.

[mgoetze]

For me:

1-1nt=good 7p to bad 11p with some proposed game values if partner have extra values, exactly a stopper at least in ♦ suit.

2-I play 2nt as a limited raise,9-11P+ with 4 card support,invite to 4♠.

3-New suit at 2-level is forcing a round,roughly with 10 p+.

4-Cuebid should show an invitational or better hand with three card ♠ support generally,forcing a round.

So, what do you do with a 10-point 2434 hand with no diamond stopper?

[Zelandakh]

So, what do you do with a 10-point 2434 hand with no diamond stopper?

Given the quoted methods, I would say this has to be a 2♣ advance.

[Vampyr]

I feel confident in telling even beginners that this [cue bid] should show an invitational or better hand with a spade fit.

 

It is probably worth telling inexperienced players that this is OK if the change of suit is forcing; if the change of suit is merely constructive, then the cue bid has to do a bit more heavy lifting, and can't be restricted to hands with a fit.

[wank]

 

 

Last night I picked up Ax Q8xx Kxxx K9x. RHO opened 1♣, pass, pass, 1♠ by partner. At the other table, 1N ended the auction. My 2N was boosted to 3N (Pard had KQT9x Tx AJx Axx), and we picked up a nice swing.

 

i would bid 1nt but that's because my partners don't forget to raise with kqt9x tx ajx axx when they've protected.