BBF religious matrix

[Phil]

Just to have a little holiday fun...

 

See questions

 

Answers are private. Just between you and your God (or your conscience :P)

[dwar0123]

I put strongly disbelieve - as that reflects my opinion towards any organized religious belief.

 

Though if I were to be completely accurate, my stance towards deism is somewhat ambivalent. When lost in wonder at the sheer awesomeness of the Universe, I have to admit I find their viewpoint attractive. I do not call myself one, I still label myself agnostic, but I am far closer to deism then full blown atheism.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

[mikeh]

I bet most would put me as 'infuriated' in the second poll, but the reality is that I don't see a single answer. I do see religion as a major source of problems in the world, but for many of the problems, particularly armed conflicts, I see religion as only part of the problem. The Israeli-Palestinian problem, for example, seems to have many aspects to it and calling it purely religious seems to me to be wrong. The same is probably true of the sectarian issues in Iraq and so on.

 

In addition, I certainly don't get the least bit infuriated with, say, the Mycrofts of the world. I think they are mistaken, but the sort of religious belief and practices he describes seem to make the social condition better with no apparent downside. Far from finding that sort of attitude to be infuriating, I feel it to be deserving of considerable respect, and reflects the best of religion. I do get infuriated with the religious who assert that they are morally superior because they have the true faith, and particularly infuriated with those who wish to impose their religious values on others or who characterize non-believers as morally deficient. On balance, then, I think I am tolerant of the great majority of the religious people I encounter in real life and intolerant of some I encounter online.

 

A complex subject is rarely amenable to simple pigeon-hole responses :D

 

But I like the attempt to let some of the steam out of the other thread, including the steam I have engendered there myself :rolleyes:

[hrothgar]

Here's the rub...

 

I have a very schizophrenic attitude towards people who don't share my beliefs. I have have plenty of close friends who are quite religious, stretching across a fairly wide swath of denominations ranging from evangelical protestant to some pretty trippy-dippy Wiccans.

 

With this said and done, there are plenty of other folks (including some of my relatives) who really tick me off.

 

I don't think that it is a matter of shared belief, but rather style...

[dustinst22]

I grew up in a Mormon family but have been atheist since ~ 15. I've always been a person who looks at things with reason/logic, and never understood faith.

 

Mormons used to think that playing cards were the work of the devil, which was pretty hilarious because my family played a ton of cards. My dad was a serious Bridge addict and my mom's parents really hated this (they were very devout mormons). Before my grandmother passed away (my dad had already passed), she kept warning me to not play Bridge as it was the work of the devil. I think the LDS faith has softened its stance since then on card play.

[jjbrr]

i believe dustinst22 is a Higher Being.

 

And Aaron Haspel.

[PassedOut]

Mormons used to think that playing cards were the work of the devil, which was pretty hilarious because my family played a ton of cards.

One of my grandmothers was a Lutheran who believed the same. My mom told of a time when their neighbors were outside playing bridge and a gust of wind blew some of the dummy over the fence into grandma's back yard. Grandma wouldn't touch the cards, so she picked them up individually between two sticks of wood, dropping them one by one back into the neighbors' yard.

 

Her husband, my grandfather, was a Lutheran minister and I asked him (this was many years later, of course) his opinion of playing cards. He chuckled and told me, "One piece of paper is no more evil than another." So far as I know, grandma never backed off.

[mgoetze]

I answered both "tolerant" and "infuriated" to question 2. I consider deism misguided, and pity those who feel the need for such silly explanations, but if that's what they need to help them cope - oh well. The "infuriated" part applies to organised religion. I strongly believe that religious organisations are harmful to society. The recent "debate" on circumcision here in Germany and the shameful law that was passed last week as a result is the newest point on a very very long list of evidence for this position.

[PrecisionL]

The ♥ knows things the mind cannot know.

[dwar0123]

I answered both "tolerant" and "infuriated" to question 2. I consider deism misguided, and pity those who feel the need for such silly explanations, but if that's what they need to help them cope - oh well. The "infuriated" part applies to organised religion. I strongly believe that religious organisations are harmful to society. The recent "debate" on circumcision here in Germany and the shameful law that was passed last week as a result is the newest point on a very very long list of evidence for this position.

Laugh, it may well be a silly explanation, though I am bemused by the idea that you think it is a coping mechanism. Deism is born out of wonderment, not out of a need to deal with anything; I am sure your pity is very misguided. But don't let me abuse you(to much) of your own perception of superiority for your righteous belief, pity away.

[mgoetze]

bemused

This word may not mean what you think it does.

[kenberg]

A long time ago I read an article where the author opined "When assessing another person, the least important thing is his opinions. I have known very fine people with completely outrageous opinions, and total jerks who have a\absolutely the latest most fashionable opinions. In fact, they usually do". That's a tad too cynical for me, but not all that far frmo my thinking.

[Cyberyeti]

While I don't believe, I am tolerant to those who do in a non literal way. People who believe in the scripture to the letter in defiance of all the scientific evidence and/or want to force their religious view of the world on me annoy me hence 2 answers to the second question.

[dwar0123]

This word may not mean what you think it does.

So it doesn't :)

 

I like to think I always leave someone an easy way out.

[barmar]

I chose "Tolerant" for the second question, because most religious people I encounter don't try to inflict their beliefs on others, so they don't bother me. As I've mentioned in other threads, what infuriates me are the religious activists who try to change public policy based on their religious beliefs: prohibiting gay marriage, teaching creationism in school (under the guise of "intelligent design"), and anti-abortion legislation. And even worse are those who promote violence in the name of religion (not just religous terrorists, but also advocates of murdering abortion doctors).

[mike777]

btw at thispoint:

 

 

4 believe

25 other or dont.

[Antrax]

Not sure what you mean by "disbelieve" and its degrees. I don't believe there's a God. I also don't believe there's no God. Does that make me ambivalent?

[mike777]

Not sure what you mean by "disbelieve" and its degrees. I don't believe there's a God. I also don't believe there's no God. Does that make me ambivalent?

 

 

fwiw I think disbelieve means for most of your life you believed in God or you believed God was not.

At some point you expended a huge amount of energy to change your belief, you thought this was an important use of a scarce resouce..energy.....

 

to repeat you have your set of beliefs....to disbelieve is an active decision by you from your long held belief.....

 

 

You spent much time on this rather than other decisions.

 

--

 

 

so you may disbelieve God exists or you may disbelieve God does not exist.

 

 

ya confusing :)

[Phil]

Here's a personal story:

 

A few months ago my doorbell rings on a Saturday morning. Normally its the neighbor to say our Cocker Spaniel is out, a fundraiser, or someone selling solar panels. I usually don't bother to even answer it, but I did.

 

On my doorstep is a nicely dressed, mixed-race couple in their mid-30's. He is wearing an obnoxious purple shirt and tie, and she is just plain homely. She seems like she is there for support; he is brimming with confidence, and I could see him as an up-and-comer.

 

I instantly recognize them as Jehovah's Witnesses and they are carrying the propaganda du jour. He smiles and asks, "What question would you like to ask God today?" Normally this elicits an insta-doorslam-in-the-face, but I just sort of smiled and actually gave this question a lot of thought.

 

After at least a minute, I responded, "Why would he give me such an advanced brain, that when I reflect on his existence, my only rational conclusion is that he simply isn't there?"

 

I seriously thought his head was going to explode. He looked to his wife and she started laughing, as if to say, "you're on your own on this one, buddy". He fumbled around with some of the FAQ's he was provided, and of course this one wasn't covered in the weekend retreat they probably attended.

 

He finally said, "Thats the most interesting question I've heard all day. If you don't mind, I'm going to talk to some of my people and get back to you".

 

I smiled and said I'd like that.

[Antrax]

I wish we had them over here. I wonder whether P = NP.

[blackshoe]

And even worse are those who promote violence in the name of religion (not just religous terrorists, but also advocates of murdering abortion doctors).

I'd say those advocates are religious terrorists too.

[wyman]

I wish we had them over here. I wonder whether P = NP.

 

Waste of a question. It doesn't.

[Antrax]

Seems probable, but hardly certain. I wouldn't consider it a waste.

[wyman]

Seems probable, but hardly certain. I wouldn't consider it a waste.

 

In the grand scheme of things, the question that you want to ask God is: "Does P=NP?" I just don't see the importance, especially given our priors on the answer. [Maybe if he could provide you a proof, so that you could score the cool $1M, I'd understand, but that would be academically dishonest. Unless of course you believe that God provides us all of our thoughts, in which case it's probably kosher.]

 

You don't want to understand human inequity? hunger? war? massacre? You don't want to know why anyone in history did what they did, or how? You don't want to know about life beyond our planet? Or about the afterlife, if any? Which stories in the bible are literal, and which are parable?

 

Even if my sole purpose in life were to troll Jehovah's Witnesses, I think I could come up with more interesting questions than P=NP. And I'm a mathematician.

[Antrax]

Too abstract for me - I doubt answers to "your" questions would enlighten me. Let's say God tells me there's human inequity because of the way our brains are wired, and it's a must to let us have free will. How is that more satisfying? Not trying to troll, it honestly seems like a good use of the question, assuming you're not trying to gain fame or wealth.