arrows Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 ♠ KJ32♥ AK6♦ 72♣ AK42 IMP game, unfavorable vulnerability.Your RHO opened a third seat 1♦, you called double of course, LHO leaped to3♦, which is described "preemptive", parnter passed. RHO bid 4♦ after giving the matter a serious thought. You were thinking about if 3♦ passed to you, you would double again, or wouldn't you? And what is your call now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 18 prime? You must be joking. Unless pard will compete with a balanced 6 count at the 3 level, doubling is the only option here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Dbl. I would never pass with this hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 double again, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 No one will stand up for the pass? Well, I will. I don't have good distribution. I asked partner to bid and he couldn't even make a responsive double over 3♦ or bid a basically competitive 3♥ or 3♠. As much as it paiins me, I think I will bow out gracefully here, and accept 3♦ probably down one. The hcp and controls are all fine, the lack of action from partner and the yucky distribution are a horse of another color. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 I'm not sure what I would do... It feels like RHO is baiting me into an indiscretion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 i can imagine rho walking the dog here, i can't imagine lho doing the same.. this boils down to the same old question, do i trust partner or op more? over 3d he could do nothing, not even double... why? i have 2 diamonds, making it impossible for him to have a trump stack... pard has a 3424 3/4 count.. while they might make 3d, i don't think so... i double and lead a trump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 i can imagine rho walking the dog here, i can't imagine lho doing the same.. this boils down to the same old question, do i trust partner or op more? over 3d he could do nothing, not even double... why? i have 2 diamonds, making it impossible for him to have a trump stack... pard has a 3424 3/4 count.. while they might make 3d, i don't think so... i double and lead a trump This is imps jimmy. You really so sure of a two trick set that you feel doubling and lead a trump is right? What is the odds your partner will pass the double for you to lead anything? 1) I don't think your partner will pass so it will not be your lead2) I think a two trick set is asking a bit much, and to double at imps looking for a one trick set here is to rich for me (but my double would be for takeout, so if partner passes it we will crush them). Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Just to get things straight. The auction was not 1D-X-2D, it was 1♦ dbl 3♦ pass4♦ ..?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 This is imps jimmy. You really so sure of a two trick set that you feel doubling and lead a trump is right? What is the odds your partner will pass the double for you to lead anything? 1) I don't think your partner will pass so it will not be your lead2) I think a two trick set is asking a bit much, and to double at imps looking for a one trick set here is to rich for me (but my double would be for takeout, so if partner passes it we will crush them). Ben no, i'm not *that* sure of a 2 trick set, but if i had to bet that's the way i'd bet.. if partner bids instead of passing, that would be ok also (tho i do wonder why not over 3d, why wait to 4d) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Just to get things straight. The auction was not 1D-X-2D, it was 1♦ dbl 3♦ pass4♦ ..?? Whoa - this is a horse of a different color. I swear I didn't see the 4♦ call on the original post...you sure it was there? It looks like Ben missed it too; I can understand me missing this - but not Ben :D The four level is an entirely different situation. However, I'm sure its a preemptive reraise with a 5th or 6th diamond. I may be getting baited here, certainly. I still double, mind you, but now my hand is what I consider to be a dead minimum for this auction, and I'm doing so because I expect a stiff diamond in pard's hand. Maybe pard can bid 4♠; I don't know. Even then, I'm expecting them to sac. I'm not expecting pard to bid 3♠ over 3♦ on hands like: Qxxxx, xxx, x, Qxxx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Double is take out guys, the most probable thing you get by doubling is to get the undoubled downs on the wrong column, but on average its the one that scores the maximum also probably sincec you aren´t very far from game, double to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Double is take out guys, the most probable thing you get by doubling is to get the undoubled downs on the wrong column, but on average its the one that scores the maximum also probably sincec you aren´t very far from game, double to me. Although a second double is for take out, partner will often pass it at the 4 level. Especially, as here when we have pretty much denied a 5 card suit by our initial double of 1♦. I think partner will do the right thing quite often here if I double, and I am just too strong to let them play 4♦ undoubled. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearmum Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 I would NEVER pass so Double the only option :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikos59 Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 I voted for double. But I don't have any certainty orstrong feelings. Even if doublegets, say, 75% of the votes, theproblem is still real and close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 I voted for double. But I don't have any certainty orstrong feelings. Even if doublegets, say, 75% of the votes, theproblem is still real and close. I think it is not quite close. Dbl could be wrong this time, but in long run it should win out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 He isn´t likelly to pass at all, he expects someting like 15-17 with 4405 or 4414 rather than a balanced strong, he probably thinks 4♦ makes when he has nothing (kinda likelly) and will bid 4M with 4 cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mila85 Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 My double here is something between takeout and penalty. JxxJxxxxxxJJx............4h (can make) JxxxJxxxJxJxx......pass (Partner should be able to defeat it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikestar Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 I double if my partner is well versed in LOTT and will leave it in unless he is shapely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 X. You simply cannot let them steal from you when you have this hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Steal? It can still be their hand :angry: I guess this is a "do you feel lucky?" problem, eheh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrows Posted December 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 [hv=d=w&v=n&n=s98hj9754dt6cjt53&w=sq74hqt832dj953c8&e=sat65hdakq84cq976&s=skj32hak6d72cak42]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] This is the full hand. In reality, I called double again, partner bid 4♥ and got hammered -1100 after he miss guessing the spade. I don't really think he should have left the double in with 5 cards in a major. And I believe a disaster like this cannot be fully explained by "luck". So I would have to say that for this hand, double again to 4D is an exaggeration which is easily overlooked. The major drawback of this hand is the shape, strentching with balanced hands is invitation to disasters. Also, the high cardsare not solid enough, may result in no winning option for partner at this level. Change a little bit, ♠ KQ32♥ AK62♦ 2♣ AK42 I believe the above hand is a perfect example with which Ishould make a double to the 4♦ :) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Here is the problem... at matchpoints, maybe you might double again (either 3♦ or 4♦)... but at imps, here is what you risk.... If they can make 3♦, the same finessees through you that lets them make maybe set you. If you can make 3♥ or 3♠, the same hook that lets you make, sets them. +110 to +130 for them, versus you down one or two (100 or 200 for them) makes little difference on an imp scale. If you can make say 3♥ or 3♠ (can't back up to it now), you get +140, versus say +50 to +100 for betting them one, again not the end of the world. Of course if you could make 3♥ and they can make 3♦, the swing is a little bigger (total swing 210) that can be a little costly. But here you discovered, all by yourself, the problem with the double. At mp, you laugh it off, and go to the next hand. At imps, minus 14 imps is a lot harder to laugh off... and could be a much bigger swing if they manage to go down one.. not real likely here, but some people play poorly. ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Dbl! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 I am not sure playing IMPs or MP makes a bid difference, at IMPs you can get a huge disaster, but also is where you can get the bid win getting to a makeable game, instead at MP passing will very often lead to +100 when doubling leads to a minus score, but also patner is more likelly to pass 4♦X sine -710 is jsut a bottom at MP, something he can´t afford at IMPs. 3 suiter is better to double of course, but you don´t need 19 HCP to doubl again. ♠ KQ32♥ K1062♦ 2♣ AK42 Is enough for another double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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